The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[OutByEaster?]

Keir demonstrating the dangers of turning too far to the left there.

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

5 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Keir demonstrating the dangers of turning too far to the left there.

 

 

might use this one in the future

 

[ml1dch]

 

Technically independent at the moment rather than Labour after having the whip removed. 

Judge apparently considering a custodial sentence - which would trigger a recall petition.  More than 12 months would trigger an automatic by-election. 

[bickster]

I know I've gone on about "leafleting" before and how ultimately pointless it is.

This is what happens when you elect people to positions of power, they use public money to carry on leafleting

She has an engagement team their job appears to be delivering junk mail that no-one will read. Royal Mail can do that much more effectively and at a fraction of the cost. Why not actually get these people to actually engage with the public, you know, verbally.

[darrenm]

The Tories almost literally burning the country to the ground and Labour fall further behind in the polls. Jeremy Corbyn must resign.

 

 

[bickster]

Oh good, YouGov again

[Jareth]

40 minutes ago, darrenm said:

The Tories almost literally burning the country to the ground and Labour fall further behind in the polls. Jeremy Corbyn must resign.

 

 

Bozza delivering Jezza's policies - it's the best we're going to get to the policies people want in a character that people feel authentic. I mean we could improve on Bozza, and we could certainly improve on the policies but I don't see any other option presently. Starmer has neither the authentic personality (what in fact is his personality?) nor the ability to go further left than Bozza, as that would be doing an antisemitism. UK is in a rut.

[HanoiVillan]

12 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Bozza delivering Jezza's policies

That's not even close to what's happening though.

[blandy]

29 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Bozza delivering Jezza's policies - it's the best we're going to get to the policies people want in a character that people feel authentic. I mean we could improve on Bozza, and we could certainly improve on the policies but I don't see any other option presently. Starmer has neither the authentic personality (what in fact is his personality?) nor the ability to go further left than Bozza, as that would be doing an antisemitism. UK is in a rut.

There's definitely an element of that, for sure. Oddly, the Tories as a party don't like it, but seem to be swallowing it, neverthless - presumably because of Opinion Poll ratings. Tories, traditionally low tax, low state involvement in industries, free market & market-forces cheerleaders are currently doing the opposite of those "principles". But they're also doing something that's very not Corbyn. The stuff around immigration and asylum for example. And they're inventing the opposite of stuff Corbynism was invested in - culture wars from the other side, so to speak. Unfortunately the immigration stuff, for example seems to be popular with a lot of people.

At some point, and I admit I thought it would have already happened, the tide will turn. I mean empty shelves, energy suppliers going bust, troubling Covid stats, the NHS in a shambles, inability to see GPs, inflation, petrol shortages and all the rest of it will filter through into Polling, and then the tories will start to panic. At the moment they're kind of sailing along, surely scarcely able to believe their luck that the oppo is a shambles and they're not well behind in the polls. 

[Jareth]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

That's not even close to what's happening though.

I know, but they are paying attention to public opinion, tories are not on natural ground, ideologically

Edited October 14, 2021 by Jareth

[OutByEaster?]

2 hours ago, darrenm said:

The Tories almost literally burning the country to the ground and Labour fall further behind in the polls. Jeremy Corbyn must resign.

 

 

How are the parties sorted from left to right on that chart?

 

[darrenm]

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

How are the parties sorted from left to right on that chart?

 

It's actually probably a mirror image of their current political standings.

[Jareth]

50 minutes ago, blandy said:

 Tories, traditionally low tax, low state involvement in industries, free market & market-forces cheerleaders are currently doing the opposite of those "principles". But they're also doing something that's very not Corbyn.

I can see why it works, I'm naturally left, but I do not support the way many on the left fall over themselves to be politically correct. If I'm not completely abnormal I suspect we all are a bit more complicated than simply left or right these days. Boris offers us a bit of both, Starmer tries to - though the former clearly has a better eye for it.

[HanoiVillan]

12 minutes ago, Jareth said:

I know, but they are paying attention to public opinion, tories are not on natural ground, ideologically

I just think this media-led narrative that the Tories are operating on very uncomfortable or unfamiliar ideological terrain is at least 9 grains of bullshit for every grain of truth.

[Jareth]

9 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

How are the parties sorted from left to right on that chart?

 

I can't look at that and not think Labour, Greens and Lib Dems need to coordinate to oust the tories. Meanwhile at Starmer HQ -"Can we win it on our own? Yes we can!" deluded numpties.

[blandy]

19 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

How are the parties sorted from left to right on that chart?

They're not, and haven't been for decades. it's not a line, it's a multi axis spectrum, even in its simplest representation. I know your comment is a throw away line, but (not relating to you) I find it kind of infuriating that there's a whole bunch of anti Starmer/Labour comment based around treating it only as a line and that Labour/Starmer is too right wing. It's utter bollex, IMO. Starmer is more progressive and less radical than yer man Catweazle, and if people want to criticise him or Labour for that, then fine, if that's their view.

But the game the tories are playing is to move economically left onto Labour ground, albeit in an illiterate fashion, and to jump around between authoritarianism and libertarianism socially, in part because they've got a throbber wing which appears to be anti mask and a throbber wing which appears to be anti the foriners.

Labour is trying to get its house in order for the day when the tory's mess hits home with people, but that day never seems to come. So we're left with angry Corbynites raging at Starmer for being too right wing and no one raging at the tories for being ginormous cunderthunts.

[bickster]

27 minutes ago, Jareth said:

I can't look at that and not think Labour, Greens and Lib Dems need to coordinate to oust the tories. Meanwhile at Starmer HQ -"Can we win it on our own? Yes we can!" deluded numpties.

This is not a Starmer thing, this is a Labour thing. Corbyn, Milliband, Brown, Smith, Blair, Kinnock, Foot, Callaghan, Wilson, every single one of them would have been the same.

Labour really is too invested in FPTP and is part of the problem not the solution to electoral reform

That's Parliamentary Labour and constitutional Labour btw not the membership, much like the Brex** word, the big Unions are also on board with this, they even blocked it at the last conference when the actual membership was seemingly in favour

I said it a few weeks ago, until Labour change their stance on Electoral Reform, I won't even consider voting for them. It's become that crucial an issue for me because without that no meaningful change will ever happen.

[HanoiVillan]

2 hours ago, bickster said:

Oh good, YouGov again

Released today but with casework from before and during the Labour conference:

Not sure whether Kantar also usually give Labour on the low side.

[bickster]

10 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Not sure whether Kantar also usually give Labour on the low side.

Liberal Mark Pack's blog usually has an up to date state of the polls and 4 days ago he blogged this

Quote

General election voting intention polls

Pollster	Con	Lab	LD	Grn	RUK	Con lead	Fieldwork
YouGov	41% (+2)	31% (nc)	9% (nc)	8% (-1)	4% (nc)	10%	12-13/10
Redfield & Wilton	40% (nc)	36% (-1)	9% (-1)	6% (+2)	4% (+1)	4%	11/10
Survation	39% (-2)	35% (-1)	9% (+1)	5% (nc)	–	4%	6-7/10
Savanta ComRes	40% (nc)	35% (nc)	9% (nc)	4% (-1)	–	5%	1-3/10
Opinium	39% (-1)	35% (-2)	8% (+1)	6% (nc)	–	4%	29-1/10
Kantar	43% (+6)	30% (-4)	11% (-3)	6% (+1)	1% (-1)	13%	23-27/9
Ipsos MORI	39% (-2)	36% (+6)	9% (-4)	6% (-2)	–	3%	17-23/9
Find Out Now	37% (-6 on May)	33% (+3)	12% (+1)	8% (-1)	4% (+2)	4%	6-8/9
Deltapoll	41% (-1)	33% (-4)	9% (+3)	7% (+1)	3% (+1)	8%	2-3/9

– indicates that party didn’t feature in the polling questions separate from ‘Others’ or that the data is not yet available.
RUK = Brexit Party or Reform Party.
nc = no change from previous comparable poll. na = not applicable, i.e. there isn’t a previous comparable poll.

 

[darrenm]

I think this accurately sums up the problem with Labour's current approach:

the farcical but also sinister way they are targeting and harassing Jewish people for 'causing hurt to Jewish people' at the same time as they explicitly name 5 people who they think may have leaked the submission to the EHRC around party infighting, costing the party millions in legal fees is all just so amateurish. Perhaps deal with what was leaked rather than go after the alleged whistleblowers might help to move forward.