meregreen Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Advocating a return to Europe might not be a bad move. The shit storm that is Brexit is gathering momentum. A majority of the electorate consider brexit is going badly according to the latest polls. Politics in this country is in flux at the moment. Anyone but the Tories could well be coming into play. I’ve always been a glass half full guy, I’m optimistic about the next election. Plus I think Johnson is a walking disaster as PM. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted September 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 30, 2021 34 minutes ago, bickster said: It'll be interesting to see what the populations opinion of Brexit and our relationship with Europe will be in two years time. I personally suspect that opinion will have shifted even more significantly than it already has. Not so sure about your average Brexit voter, I think they can still be easily cajoled into a reaction against those who would have them rejoin - not that anyone at that point is talking about practicalities of leave or remain, just highly personal identity as a leaver/remainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 30, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 30, 2021 1 hour ago, Jareth said: Not so sure about your average Brexit voter, There's no such thing Your reference point appears to be hardline, very vocal, Brexiteers. I don't think they represent the majority (or even close to it) of those that voted to leave. I think the much larger proportion of those is the "shy brexiteer" and these are the ones whose opinion will shift significantly as they don't have the personal public investment meaning they'd have to admit they were wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 19 hours ago, ml1dch said: For anyone who claims to want to be rid of the T*****, that's...a (checks notes) good thing? Isn't it? Not if you are of the opinion that having Starmer as Labour leader keeps the Tories in for longer and that replacing him with someone better earlier will lead to being rid of the Tories quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 30, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 30, 2021 25 minutes ago, darrenm said: Not if you are of the opinion that having Starmer as Labour leader keeps the Tories in for longer and that replacing him with someone better earlier will lead to being rid of the Tories quicker. If that's how you see it, then I understand and sympathise, because I felt that about the previous bloke. And so it turned out. It's depressing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, blandy said: If that's how you see it, then I understand and sympathise, because I felt that about the previous bloke. And so it turned out. It's depressing. difference is, you were wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 30, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 30, 2021 12 minutes ago, darrenm said: difference is, you were wrong Demonstrably not so! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted September 30, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 30, 2021 6 hours ago, Jareth said: Other than not to mention it too often, nope. But others in his circle are devising ways to form a new relationship with Europe and literallly anything that happens along these lines and the tories will scream treachery - and sadly it will work. Starmer = Remain - and always always will. The phrase from the speech "Make Brexit work" is actually a really good one, there's enough of a suggestion to leavers and people capable of thinking that says ' we know it's sh*t but' whilst still enough of a 'we can do this' to keep leavers satisfied that he won't give up on their dream of erm...whatever it is. The challenge is to learn from the current government that the key is repeating the phrase constantly whilst never actually entering into any public discourse on how that might be achieved or what it actually means to you - in this regard, the Labour party may well have the right man for the job. The conference as a whole was a love letter to Starmers' most important current constituency; media barons and bankers - if he can keep them reasonably calm, they'll find him voters - the problem for me and a lot of other people who vote Labour is that what we're really looking for is a Prime minister whose main aim is to protect us from the avarice of media barons and bankers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 30, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: The conference as a whole was a love letter to Starmers' most important current constituency; media barons and bankers I think "love letter" is way overplaying it. It was a message (to them, I think) of "no, I'm not going to go all venezuela on your ass". TBH I thought the conference was a shambles for a large part, but redeemed quite a bit by the stuff he said at the end, and he was helped quite a bit by the angry hecklers. There must be large parts of the country that don't like the tories but despaired at the lack of sane opposition in England, in particular. So I thought he was trying to send a message of "we're back out of the loony farm" to those people. I mean the various post election investigations and post mortems identified the main reasons people switched away from Labour as being Corbyn, a non-credible manifesto and concerns about how Labour would handle the economy. He obviously knows that and was trying to counter those views, But you're right that the media is always going to be one of the targets of any leader's message, and he was no different. Then again, my sense of it was from listening to him speak on the radio and reading and watching what was going on, also via the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 30, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 30, 2021 Talking of angry hecklers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted September 30, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 30, 2021 3 hours ago, bickster said: I think the much larger proportion of those is the "shy brexiteer" and these are the ones whose opinion will shift significantly as they don't have the personal public investment meaning they'd have to admit they were wrong. Optimistic, tories still leading in the polls by some margin, even after all the crap caused by Brexit - unless the shy ones have been asleep there's hardly any sign of significant buyer's regret nationwide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 38 minutes ago, Jareth said: Optimistic, tories still leading in the polls by some margin, even after all the crap caused by Brexit - unless the shy ones have been asleep there's hardly any sign of significant buyer's regret nationwide. They are completely unaccountable at this stage. They can get away with absolutely anything. Anything they do wrong their supporters just blame on the pandemic. These are same people that still blame Labour for causing a global economic crisis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 6 hours ago, meregreen said: Advocating a return to Europe might not be a bad move. The shit storm that is Brexit is gathering momentum. A majority of the electorate consider brexit is going badly according to the latest polls. Politics in this country is in flux at the moment. Anyone but the Tories could well be coming into play. I’ve always been a glass half full guy, I’m optimistic about the next election. Plus I think Johnson is a walking disaster as PM. Even as a die hard remainer I'm not sure trying to return to Europe is a good idea. Even if they allowed us back on they'd never give us back the privileges we had previously (and we'd probably be out again within a decade). Not sure it'd be a vote winner really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 26 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: They are completely unaccountable at this stage. They can get away with absolutely anything. Anything they do wrong their supporters just blame on the pandemic. These are same people that still blame Labour for causing a global economic crisis. They're a lost cause. You aren't going to sweet talk them round. So you have to consolidate your base and try to build from there. Not tear it all down in the hope of swapping it all out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 Can't believe he missed this opportunity. smh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted October 1, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 1, 2021 Don't know whether it's more tragic he wants a female Bond, or that on even such an inconsequential question the word removed sits on the fence. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 20 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Don't know whether it's more tragic he wants a female Bond, or that on even such an inconsequential question the word removed sits on the fence. It's just cringeworthy. If good old Boris was asked that question he would say Bond is a British male and make some comment about bulldog spirit and Churchill etc. Load of bollocks but he'd have an opinion. Starmer just tries to appease everyone and it makes him look weak minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 On 30/09/2021 at 10:48, meregreen said: Advocating a return to Europe might not be a bad move. The shit storm that is Brexit is gathering momentum. A majority of the electorate consider brexit is going badly according to the latest polls. Politics in this country is in flux at the moment. Anyone but the Tories could well be coming into play. I’ve always been a glass half full guy, I’m optimistic about the next election. Plus I think Johnson is a walking disaster as PM. Nah, it’ll be another phrase that people wank over even though it has no substance. BRILLIANT BRITAIN BREAD which they will repeat and all the thick voters will lap it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 1, 2021 Moderator Share Posted October 1, 2021 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Can't believe he missed this opportunity. smh He should have said Sean Connery acting to preserve peace for the whole United Kingdom is my favourite (just to piss Sturgeon off) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 57 minutes ago, bickster said: He should have said Sean Connery acting to preserve peace for the whole United Kingdom is my favourite (just to piss Sturgeon off) He's the one that engages in a bit of rape in his Bond films isn't he? Can't see that backfiring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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