chrisp65 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Out of curiosity, how many of us have actually read the whole of his pamphlet for the Fabian Society? I have, but then I’m a bit nerdy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Genie Posted September 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Out of curiosity, how many of us have actually read the whole of his pamphlet for the Fabian Society? I have, but then I’m a bit nerdy. I only skim read your post. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Genie said: I only skim read your post. Who are you quoting, I have a few on block so unsure which one it is. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted September 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 23, 2021 16 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Out of curiosity, how many of us have actually read the whole of his pamphlet for the Fabian Society? I struggled with the words and structure of this tweet alone - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2021 26 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Out of curiosity, how many of us have actually read the whole of his pamphlet for the Fabian Society? I have, but then I’m a bit nerdy. Not read the whole thing yet but I have read the conclusion and the ten points (as linked in the above tweet) Quote • We will always put hard-working families and their priorities first. • If you work hard and play by the rules, you should be rewarded fairly. • People and businesses are expected to contribute to society, as well as receive. • Your chances in life should not be defined by the circumstances of your birth – hard work and how you contribute should matter. • Families, communities and the things that bring us together must once again be put above individualism. • The economy should work for citizens and communities. It is not good enough to just surrender to market forces. • The role of government is to be a partner to private enterprise, not stifle it. • The government should treat taxpayer money as if it were its own. The current levels of waste are unacceptable. • The government must play its role in restoring honesty, decency and transparency in public life. • We are proudly patriotic but we reject the divisiveness of nationalism. I find it interesting that Darren earlier chose to quote the 7th line in relation to public ownership of utilities etc when the 6th line would appear to be more relevant to the point he was trying to make I think it is what it is, it is sort of fluffy, it's a setting out of principals not a manifesto and it was always going to be that way. I don't really see a lot wrong with what it is saying and it is currently deliberately vague. Its just a document that says We Are Democratic Socialists The devil as they say, is always in the detail and in that the vision is currently lacking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted September 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 23, 2021 So glad to have a new set of 10 points to replace the old set - I wonder how many votes Starmer would have picked up in the leadership contest had he put these forward. All I see is Mandleson and co hard at work to seize control, as quickly as possible - but boy are they doing some damage to their cause along the way - personally see this backfiring to the point they lose all the influence they ever had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: Out of curiosity, how many of us have actually read the whole of his pamphlet for the Fabian Society? I have, but then I’m a bit nerdy. I skim read it last night. When it's that vacuous it's really easy to skim read it really quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, darrenm said: I skim read it last night. When it's that vacuous it's really easy to skim read it really quickly Out of curiosity what did you expect it to be? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, blandy said: It's also speculation (being polite). Oh of course, it’s my opinion. The fact that neither were or ever will be elected Prime Minister means we will never be able to prove it one way or another. But that wasn’t the point. The fact that you then go on to talk about Corbyns leadership as a way to deflect from or provide context to the failures of Starmer, is. Edited September 23, 2021 by dont_do_it_doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 23, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2021 52 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: The fact that you then go on to talk about Corbyns leadership as a way to deflect from or provide context to the failures of Starmer, is. is what? The point I was trying to get across (badly, it seems) is that electability is really only known once we get to a general election and that being ahead or behind in the polls, whoever it is, is just a snapshot of a day when there's not an election at best (as you say) gives us a bit of data to help inform our opinions. I didn't mean to deflect from anything. I personally was convinced that Corbyn would never get elected, from the point, or even before, he became leader. But that's in the past. Starmer's got a massive job to turn round a 80 odd seat advantage to the baby eaters, and to date neither his individual efforts, not the collective ones of the Labour party look like they're going to be anywhere near good enough. Corbyn was hampered to by infighting and splits. My posts aren't partisan as from a particular part of the Labour party - IDGAS about that. They're observations of a rando on the internet about how it looks from the perspective of someone who wants the tories out and despairs about that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted September 23, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2021 Quote The government should treat taxpayer money as if it were its own. We've already got one of these. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: We've already got one of these. No we haven't, we've got a Government that treats taxpayer money like its the proceeds of a robbery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 2 hours ago, bickster said: Out of curiosity what did you expect it to be? Dunno really. I was hoping to be surprised and challenged. And wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, darrenm said: Dunno really. I was hoping to be surprised and challenged. And wasn't. Were you expecting policy announcements? I certainly wasn't but suspect you might have been? It's a general vision of how he see's things. I don't think there's anything bad in it on the other hand it doesn't really address any policy. It's a mission statement, nothing more, nothing less and I'd say it broadly outlines a general view of Democratic Socialism The error he's made with this is leaking to the press that he was going to release it. It's driven up expectation and had people sharpening their knives in readiness. He should have just released it then announced it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Well I'm off down Brighton tomorrow, ready for my ringside seat to shitshow, assuming I'm not expelled while I'm on the train. I'm looking forward to voting for less power in choosing the next leader. I'm glad to hand over power to the likes of Dame Margret (Gord bless her), Our Jess, and Benny Bradshaw. I can't be trusted to make my own mind up, as I'm scum. As my mate put it, maybe we should just go the whole hog and have a new system to elect leaders. One pound, one vote. Then the billionaires can just have who they want and everyone will be much happier. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 51 minutes ago, dAVe80 said: Well I'm off down Brighton tomorrow, ready for my ringside seat to shitshow, assuming I'm not expelled while I'm on the train. I'm looking forward to voting for less power in choosing the next leader. I'm glad to hand over power to the likes of Dame Margret (Gord bless her), Our Jess, and Benny Bradshaw. I can't be trusted to make my own mind up, as I'm scum. As my mate put it, maybe we should just go the whole hog and have a new system to elect leaders. One pound, one vote. Then the billionaires can just have who they want and everyone will be much happier. 3 pounds one vote. As it goes Dave I will look forward to your conference views as you do always seem fairly balanced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 17 minutes ago, Seat68 said: 3 pounds one vote. As it goes Dave I will look forward to your conference views as you do always seem fairly balanced. I'll try my best. I was talking about going today in our committee meeting for my union branch. I was saying I'm really looking forward to it, and I know I'm going to meet up with a load of great people, who have similar politics with me, and I'll be inspired, but the actual conference and speeches from the shadow cabinet, and Keef are probably going to get on my chebs. Will wait and see though I suppose. Going into it with an open mind. My union are also making a point of pointing out the s*n shouldn't be welcome, and we have t-shirts printed with such a message. I'll be wearing mine with pride. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 23, 2021 Share Posted September 23, 2021 Turns out that when Starmer wrote his missive about the rise of the multi headed hydra of nationalism, the damage nationalism causes to progressives, the othering of minorities caused by divisive nationalism, the use of the flag as a symbol of hate, when he wrote all that, he didn’t mean the upcoming pact between Welsh Labour and Plaid Cymru. No, didn’t mean that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted September 24, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 24, 2021 Did not realise the David Miliband camp / right - were behind the voting change in the first place - Although the current “one member, one vote” arrangements are often described as being brought in by Ed Miliband, they were in fact a reaction to his election as the “wrong” Miliband due to the union vote in the party’s electoral college. It was thought that the party membership, who had supported David Miliband, would be a more reliable source of votes for the “right” (in both senses) candidate in future. To make this process even more certain, voting was opened up to “registered supporters”, who were seen as being more sensible than activist members who might still tend towards the left. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/23/labour-needs-to-find-a-way-to-connect-with-voters Can this lot screw things up any more than they have already? When will they get the message that their candidates have nothing to offer? Wes Streeting being lined up as we speak - for real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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