Davkaus Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 (edited) We've not heard the phrase "enemy of the people" for a while, but that appears to fit the bill. I've never heard of Evolve Politics, do they have a track record? Edited September 20, 2021 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: We've not heard the phrase "enemy of the people" for a while, but that appears to fit the bill. I've never heard of Evolve Politics, do they have a track record? Evolve are pretty good. Not crank like Skwawkbox or Canary. Bit like Novara; definitely left but trying to build a reputation as serious. This is being reported in lots of places though, Evolve was just the last place I saw it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 20, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, darrenm said: Evolve are pretty good. Not crank like Skwawkbox or Canary. yuh thunk? You think they want to be taken seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 1 minute ago, bickster said: yuh thunk? You think they want to be taken seriously? Yes. But this isn't really about the source, it'd being reported in various places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 20, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 20, 2021 What source? They're all shouting down each others earholes. SIennas source, is evolve, who got it from skwark who heard a canary sing it whilst unzipping Aaron bastani's underpants. It's the very definition of a self-afirming echo chamber It's like a bunch of ITK in the summer transfer thread 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 15 minutes ago, bickster said: What source? They're all shouting down each others earholes. SIennas source, is evolve, who got it from skwark who heard a canary sing it whilst unzipping Aaron bastani's underpants. It's the very definition of a self-afirming echo chamber It's like a bunch of ITK in the summer transfer thread It seems to be taken seriously enough for a few MPs to become animated. You wouldn't think John McDonnell (follows me!) would tweet about it if there wasn't some substance. Perhaps it's just people getting excited about nothing. Guess we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 It's been obvious since about a fortnight after Starmer took over that One Member One Vote will be on the chopping block. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted September 21, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 21, 2021 It’s quite a regressive step - but expected. Maybe they thought let’s make this the civil war conference and get all the casualties out of the way in one big go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted September 21, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2021 It would be such a pity if after 16 months in charge, a leader who has spent that time floundering due to a lack of policies and no clear direction, partly as a direct result of not being able to have a conference, then lets that conference be dominated by a civil war of his own making, at the expense of any sort of visibility for those policies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 21, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: then lets that conference be dominated by a civil war of his own making Difficult though. If he ‘doesn’t let’ it happen, he’s “stifling free speech and being authoritarian” and if it does happen, it’s not of his making alone, but he’ll get slated all the same. The same applied to the last bloke. The civil war wasn’t his fault, he was the catalyst for the right wing to get all overthrowy, this time Starmer is the catalyst for Corbynites to be similarly overthrowy. knobheads need to stop being knobheads. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 21, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2021 8 minutes ago, blandy said: Difficult though. If he ‘doesn’t let’ it happen, he’s “stifling free speech and being authoritarian” and if it does happen, it’s not of his making alone, but he’ll get slated all the same. The same applied to the last bloke. The civil war wasn’t his fault, he was the catalyst for the right wing to get all overthrowy, this time Starmer is the catalyst for Corbynites to be similarly overthrowy. knobheads need to stop being knobheads. When two partners are completely incompatible with each other even a marriage guidance councillor will guide them towards splitting up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted September 21, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 21, 2021 54 minutes ago, blandy said: this time Starmer is the catalyst for Corbynites to be similarly overthrowy. Not feeling that - a lot of Corbyn supporters / members voted Starmer in - if there is mutiny in the air it's not because the party is being led by someone they reject outright. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted September 21, 2021 Share Posted September 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, Jareth said: Not feeling that - a lot of Corbyn supporters / members voted Starmer in - if there is mutiny in the air it's not because the party is being led by someone they reject outright. I was one of Starmer's biggest fans. I got right behind his leadership campaign because I thought I could trust him. I now can't stand him because he's made a fool out of me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 21, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2021 15 minutes ago, Jareth said: Not feeling that - a lot of Corbyn supporters / members voted Starmer in - if there is mutiny in the air it's not because the party is being led by someone they reject outright. I can't access twitter from this computer, but #StarmerOut (if you dare enter the sewer) is absolutely full of them last time I looked, as an example. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 21, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2021 1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said: It would be such a pity if after 16 months in charge, a leader who has spent that time floundering due to a lack of policies and no clear direction, partly as a direct result of not being able to have a conference, then lets that conference be dominated by a civil war of his own making, at the expense of any sort of visibility for those policies. Not convinced about this entirely of his own making bit Upthread it was talked about LfGND's conference motion being thrown out and that being undemocratic and part of the witch hunt / example of autocratic rule blah The reason it was thrown out was because it broke the rules for motions needing to be about one single topic, which was announced right at the start before any motions were sent. What happens next is people foaming at the mouth because a GND should be at the heart of policy and totally ignoring the reason why, many seem to have convinced themselves that it won't even be discussed at conference (it will) and there's going to be a protest at conference to get the motion back in. Now given the actual facts of the situation, that it was rejected because it broke the rules announced right at the start, one of two scenarios is logical. LfGND are a bunch of incompetents or and I'm likely to fall on this side personally, given the support from certain unions and CLPs that is just a set up designed to make Starmer look bad. I can't see how that many organisations supported it without going "You know... this might break the rules, lets rewrite it so it doesn't." Of course there's also the scenario where LfGND are a bunch of incompetents and some of the others jumped on it in full knowledge of what would happen. Whether LfGND are useful idiots or not isn't relevant really but those unions etc knew what was going to happen. Starmer's still getting the blame though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted September 21, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, darrenm said: I was one of Starmer's biggest fans. I got right behind his leadership campaign because I thought I could trust him. I now can't stand him because he's made a fool out of me. It was difficult at the time of the last leadership vote - the far left were forecasting what Starmer has actually now done, but personally I only saw them as troublemakers and wanted a leader who could settle it all down and give us the policies we wanted. So naturally I voted Starmer. That Starmer now wants to remove the mechanism that put him into power, having rowed back on his 10 pledges - well that's not in order, not at all. I suppose it comes down to how the PLP and the membership define 'democracy'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 21, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, darrenm said: I was one of Starmer's biggest fans. I got right behind his leadership campaign because I thought I could trust him. I now can't stand him because he's made a fool out of me. Please take this as a compliment, I may be mistaken, but I seem to recall that in these various bolitics threads you've been a supporter of all kinds of different political figures and parties - even your own at one point? - It's a compliment because it shows you're free thinking rather than tribal - but the flip side is that it kind of shows that putting big faith in politicians to be "the answer" is (IMO) not particularly likely to end in anything other than disillusionment. It's kind of one of the reasons I look at competence more than ideology - ideology always clashes with reality at some point, and then you're let down, or feel foolish. Brexit would be an example - loads of people now have "buyers remorse" that the ideology of a free Britain actually means all kinds of bad stuff happening. It's like that post @HanoiVillanwrote when a twitter of Gordon Brown proclaiming all the good things Labour did was posted - "yeah but what about the war and this and that and the other..." - I mean he's right, but show me a perfect politician. Personally I think it's too soon to see how Labour emerges from its slump of the past however long it is, or if it emerges at all. The pandemic and Brexit in particular have just completely changed things in the past few years, politically. The world isn't as it was, and it will never be the same again. Labour has to adapt to how things actually are, not kind of go back to old historical tenets. Big task. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted September 21, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted September 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, blandy said: I can't access twitter from this computer, but #StarmerOut (if you dare enter the sewer) is absolutely full of them last time I looked, as an example. TBH, I can understand the sentiment, but I imagine the loudest are the same far left who foretold this as happening, back at the leadership election. They don't suddenly become correct, because they took a hugely cynical position that turned out to be right. But Starmer has a lot to answer for nonetheless - he has used the membership to win election as leader and is now reversing that process to put power back into the hands of the PLP. IMHO we can discount the far left as the angry dicks they've always been, the majority of dissatisfaction at the moment is spread much much wider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 21, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Jareth said: having rowed back on his 10 pledges Which ones and why has he done it? Has anything changed since he made them? Reason I ask is I genuinely don't know which ones, and secondly, just hypothetically, the state of the economy is completely different because of Covid - so if it were me, there would be some things that would kind of slip down or off the list and others that would need to get added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 21, 2021 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jareth said: IMHO we can discount the far left as the angry dicks they've always been, the majority of dissatisfaction at the moment is spread much much wider. Would you say that people who aren't the angry dicks are nevertheless being kind of rabble roused by the angry dicks? and would you share my view that the anger directed at Starmer might be better directed at the actual Tories doing the proper bad stuff? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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