OutByEaster? Posted May 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2021 2 hours ago, blandy said: It seems to me like they don't know where the anchor is - the thing from which they have some freedom to move, but not so much freedom that they forget they've got an anchor, if that makes sense? The anchor is a core, fundamental ethos. You'd hoped they'd at least have noticed that they're heading the wrong way though? I don't think it's possible to claim everything's going well, push on - and yet bafflingly that's what he seems to be doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted May 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 7, 2021 17 minutes ago, bickster said: I'm not sure you realise how massive that particular scandal is and how many people it affects Voters don't care about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted May 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 7, 2021 20 minutes ago, Jareth said: Truly awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, tinker said: Truly awesome Jess Phillips though? Mate, did you see any of her last leadership campaign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, tinker said: Voters don't care about it That will change, the law has only just been passed to make the owners of the flats liable. The true effect has yet to hit them. When they are faced with a bill for £80k they'll care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2021 Should he be continuing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 2 hours ago, bickster said: So you are saying that the Green Party doesn't have it's primary focus on environmental Issues? Or are you saying it's a socialist party? Because those are the only two comments I made about them. The Greens may well be well left of centre but they are absolutely not a socialist party (this is to their credit) The enviro crisis and social justice (not in the pejorative way of our time meaning) are the core tenets of the modern Greens, and many of them would prefer to have enviro subsumed as it is fairness and a just society more broadly that they desire, and tackling that issue automatically requires addressing many of the causes of the environmental issues. The evolution of the green party in the past 25 yrs as it has become more relevant has been really interesting. The upcoming German elections are going to be real eye-openers to see where they are, as they have a real shot at Merkel's job! and how media/big-money reacts to this possibility will be quite revealing. I wonder how Starmer, the systems-man, would fair in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2021 1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said: Should he be continuing? Turn it on it's head, who is the idiot going to take the mantle? I just don't see that there is anyone one currently in the Labour Party capable of turning this around. (and I mean from anywhere in the party) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2021 1 minute ago, bickster said: I just don't see that there is anyone one currently in the Labour Party capable of turning this around. Not easy to find one, but it'd be nice to find someone that at least recognises that it needs to be turned around! He looked awful on the news today, it was shambolic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, bickster said: Turn it on it's head, who is the idiot going to take the mantle? I just don't see that there is anyone one currently in the Labour Party capable of turning this around. (and I mean from anywhere in the party) A lot of talk seems to suggest that Burnham is the favoured option - he'd be absolutely mad to leave his current role to lead the parliamentary party IMO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2021 1 minute ago, villakram said: The enviro crisis and social justice (not in the pejorative way of our time meaning) are the core tenets of the modern Greens, and many of them would prefer to have enviro subsumed as it is fairness and a just society more broadly that they desire, and tackling that issue automatically requires addressing many of the causes of the environmental issues. The evolution of the green party in the past 25 yrs as it has become more relevant has been really interesting. The upcoming German elections are going to be real eye-openers to see where they are, as they have a real shot at Merkel's job! and how media/big-money reacts to this possibility will be quite revealing. I wonder how Starmer, the systems-man, would fair in Germany. Again, what has that specifically got to do with Socialism? Socialists do not have copyright on wanting social justice Socialism is many things to many people but the Greens still aren't socialist, not even remotely. And again, going back to the original point of this discussion branch.... Why would the Greens welcome a toxic influx of left wing socilaists disaffected with the Labour Party? Why would any other party want that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 7, 2021 1 minute ago, icouldtelltheworld said: A lot of talk seems to suggest that Burnham is the favoured option - he'd be absolutely mad to leave his current role to lead the parliamentary party IMO Seems the best choice but so did Starmer at the time. Another contest would be quite fascinating. Don't expect to see Jess Phillips there though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2021 Just now, bickster said: And again, going back to the original point of this discussion branch.... Why would the Greens welcome a toxic influx of left wing socilaists disaffected with the Labour Party? Why would any other party want that? Because they vote and there are lots of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jareth said: Seems the best choice but so did Starmer at the time. Another contest would be quite fascinating. Don't expect to see Jess Phillips there though. Labour's problems run much deeper than a change of leader tbh, it'd just be more window dressing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 Hey, I was voting Greens before it was cool 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, icouldtelltheworld said: A lot of talk seems to suggest that Burnham is the favoured option - he'd be absolutely mad to leave his current role to lead the parliamentary party IMO Burnham's currently popularity is down to the fact he delayed putting in COVID measures into Greater Manchester and stood up to the government How many people do you think might have died so he could make his point? How long did Manchester remain in lockdown as a result of that? His mate Rotherham here in Liverpool was in the exact same situation and reacted completely differently, we came out of that lockdown much quicker as a result of acting fast. Neither Rotherham nor Burnham are MPs anyway, so that really isn't going to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2021 I think it's easy to get lost in definitions of the word socialism - it's clear that in terms of offering a choice to voters who don't want to vote for the Tories, the Green's are the most logical place for voters that are unsatisfied with Labour to settle. They're offering policies that you'd traditionally associate with Labour and although Labour don't have any policies, going by the way in which Starmer is presenting the party, Labour is moving further from those traditional Labour values. It'll never happen in enough volume to make the Green's a threat for electability, but it might at least work to help keep the Labour leadership 'honest' in respecting the ethos of the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Because they vote and there are lots of them? We're specifically talking membership here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icouldtelltheworld Posted May 7, 2021 Share Posted May 7, 2021 Just now, bickster said: Burnham's currently popularity is down to the fact he delayed putting in COVID measures into Greater Manchester and stood up to the government Not disputing any of that - my point is that he is on to a good thing and would be mad to take on the party leadership Apparently Andrew Adonis has been quoted as saying that the next Labour leadership campaign shouldn't be restricted to MPs, can only conclude that he's referring to Burnham in saying that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, bickster said: We're specifically talking membership here I'm not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts