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The Chairman Mao resembling, Queen hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread


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On 18/11/2020 at 14:18, Wainy316 said:

That's because your views weren't shaped by these rags.

For instance, my Dad used to bring the Sun home every day and as I read it (and looked at the bewbs) my early world view would become shaped by columns such as 'The Sun Says'.  I was ignorant, it was the line I was fed and I was on board with all the 'political correctness gone mad' and the 'foreigners are taking our jobs and being awarded 50 bed mansions' bullshit.  Luckily I was too young to vote at the time.  

Once I started consuming info from elsewhere my experiences and horizons broadened and my general view on things flipped more or less 180 over time.

Snowflake 

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It sounds like the sparks will be flying in a few weeks when the Forde inquiry is published

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/nov/22/labour-infighting-inquiry-damaging-starmers-position

Quote

Concerns have now emerged over the scale and unpredictability of the independent inquiry, which insiders fear has taken on “a life of its own”. It is understood to have received hundreds of submissions. Party figures said the inquiry was going “anywhere and everywhere”.

 

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41 minutes ago, bickster said:

Is this the one that leaked months ago@darrenm?

As @HanoiVillan says, it's the report that Starmer commissioned to get the facts about the leaked dossier. The original dossier was to be presented to the EHRC for inclusion in their investigation to give context and hopefully change it from a 'lets blame the left' to 'you need your heads banging together' and (I'm projecting a little) move the narrative from 'the left are raving antisemites' to 'the Labour party are structurally unable to deal with racism'.

I've read that Martin Forde QC is highly respected and won't pull any punches so it could be quite damaging to both factions.

 

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As I understand it, the enquiry was started primarily because the unions - frankly, not unreasonably - felt that the leaked report suggested that the party bureaucracy had more or less deliberately set out to sabotage the 2017 campaign, and since it's largely their money I can entirely sympathise with their concern.

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28 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

As I understand it, the enquiry was started primarily because the unions - frankly, not unreasonably - felt that the leaked report suggested that the party bureaucracy had more or less deliberately set out to sabotage the 2017 campaign, and since it's largely their money I can entirely sympathise with their concern.

Hush. It's better for everyone that Corbyn was a Very Nasty Bad Man and that we all move on to centrist positions.

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Labour do love a good enquiry don't they? No matter how you look at it the bureaucracy of the party let them down both with the AS disciplinary cases taking far too long and it's now letting them down by showing everyone how inept their party structure is at actually moving on. I think it'd do the party a world of good if Corbyn took his little rag tag band and made his own little party. I'm sure it'd clean up the message coming out of Labour, and particularly CLP's like Wavertree and Riverside with a fairly immediate effect.

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16 hours ago, Chindie said:

Hush. It's better for everyone that Corbyn was a Very Nasty Bad Man and that we all move on to centrist positions.

It seems as if quite a lot of the British public might have thought that, judging by the last Election result !

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21 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Labour do love a good enquiry don't they? No matter how you look at it the bureaucracy of the party let them down both with the AS disciplinary cases taking far too long and it's now letting them down by showing everyone how inept their party structure is at actually moving on. I think it'd do the party a world of good if Corbyn took his little rag tag band and made his own little party. I'm sure it'd clean up the message coming out of Labour, and particularly CLP's like Wavertree and Riverside with a fairly immediate effect.

Here's the anatomy of a particularly nasty case of antisemitism in the Labour Party

https://www.lileftalliance.org/2020/07/28/the-petition/

Quote

In the summer of 2016, a Labour International member submitted a complaint to the moderators of a FB group, involving antisemitic abuse they had received from another member, ‘X’. Eighteen months later, following an exhaustive and often exhausting effort, that complaint, along with further evidence including praise of Mosley’s Blackshirts at Cable St, and Holocaust denial, culminated in [X]’s suspension and eventual expulsion a year later.

You'll notice that the responsibility here (as it always is) was with the Head of Disputes and the General Secretary. They ignored that case for 2 years. I'm not sure why you're focusing on the people who were prevented from cleaning it up rather than the people who actually sat on sickening stuff like this and ignored it. 2 years of nothing and then as soon as Jennie Formby (part of the "little rag tag band") becomes the GS, this happens:

image.png.1d86201ad49d3c65c67313f036d08918.png

Why aren't you angry at the people who caused this?

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Darren, your post doesn't really say anything. You might think it does but it doesn't

What have moderators of a Facebook Group to do with a complaint of AS to the Labour Party being dealt with? What is the timeframe from this initial report to the LP actually receiving the complaint?

Formby takes over and in days X is  expelled. Do we know how much of that process took place before she took over? I don't from what you've posted

Right now, that post just reads like a list of events that may or may not be connected,

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28 minutes ago, bickster said:

Darren, your post doesn't really say anything. You might think it does but it doesn't

Well that's a great start. Telling me you're right and I'm wrong no matter what I think. I think that level of condescension is beneath you. You're welcome to rephrase it.

As for the rest of your reply, the initial complaint was received by the Labour Party on 4th November 2016. It's in the timeline on that page. We don't know how much of it was done before Formby took over but a suspension is an instant process (see Corbyn) and doesn't need 18 months to plan and stage. Therefore the only logical conclusion is that the previous GS did nothing and Formby took instant action. I fail to see how that isn't clear from the page.

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1 minute ago, darrenm said:

Well that's a great start. Telling me you're right and I'm wrong no matter what I think

If you think that's what I've done then, that's clearly your problem not mine. I haven't said anything is right or wrong because I have no idea

 

2 minutes ago, darrenm said:

We don't know how much of it was done before Formby took over

See, this bit is rather crucial

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1 hour ago, darrenm said:

Here's the anatomy of a particularly nasty case of antisemitism in the Labour Party

https://www.lileftalliance.org/2020/07/28/the-petition/

You'll notice that the responsibility here (as it always is) was with the Head of Disputes and the General Secretary. They ignored that case for 2 years. I'm not sure why you're focusing on the people who were prevented from cleaning it up rather than the people who actually sat on sickening stuff like this and ignored it. 2 years of nothing and then as soon as Jennie Formby (part of the "little rag tag band") becomes the GS, this happens:

image.png.1d86201ad49d3c65c67313f036d08918.png

Why aren't you angry at the people who caused this?

Did you read what I wrote? I wrote that the bureaucracy has let Labour down, in no way was my statement time-limited. 

It's possible to think that both Corbyn and non-Corbyn era AS handling has been a shambles in the party that is supposed to be anti racist. With Corbyn it just became much more apparent as he's got so many gaffes in his past that makes him unpalatable. His recent comments just shows that he's everything but a peacemaker. He won't concede anything or do any kind of soul searching for all his previous errors, be that the infamous irony comments, mural, attending a wreath laying where he really shouldn't have been, "I have Jewish friends!!"-statements, associating with people like Livingstone and Hatton etc. etc.

In my mind he could have made an example of the idiots harassing the two Jewish MP's in Liverpool, but as always he was silent when it suited his chequered past.

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16 minutes ago, bickster said:

If you think that's what I've done then, that's clearly your problem not mine. I haven't said anything is right or wrong because I have no idea

This is an absolute statement

"Darren, your post doesn't really say anything. You might think it does but it doesn't"

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8 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Did you read what I wrote? I wrote that the bureaucracy has let Labour down, in no way was my statement time-limited. 

It's possible to think that both Corbyn and non-Corbyn era AS handling has been a shambles in the party that is supposed to be anti racist. With Corbyn it just became much more apparent as he's got so many gaffes in his past that makes him unpalatable. His recent comments just shows that he's everything but a peacemaker. He won't concede anything or do any kind of soul searching for all his previous errors, be that the infamous irony comments, mural, attending a wreath laying where he really shouldn't have been, "I have Jewish friends!!"-statements, associating with people like Livingstone and Hatton etc. etc.

In my mind he could have made an example of the idiots harassing the two Jewish MP's in Liverpool, but as always he was silent when it suited his chequered past.

Yes and I agree with everything you've said. Right up until the point where you're blaming the left who it's now being shown from various sources (Buzzfeed, Labour leaks) were the ones trying to sort it out against a hostile party machine. The EHRC report acknowledges this.

Corbyn pushed for Livingstone to be suspended: (from the EHRC report)

image.png.1f97a1cf679a5c76ba6c744437ab42c9.png

As I've previously said, the support for mural was apologised for. The irony comments were directed at 2 specific individuals, Millett and Hoffman, who had been arrested banned from parliament. The wreath laying was for a bus full of Palestinian kids.

Which idiots harassing Jewish MPs in Liverpool? 

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27 minutes ago, darrenm said:

Yes and I agree with everything you've said. Right up until the point where you're blaming the left who it's now being shown from various sources (Buzzfeed, Labour leaks) were the ones trying to sort it out against a hostile party machine. The EHRC report acknowledges this.

Corbyn pushed for Livingstone to be suspended: (from the EHRC report)

image.png.1f97a1cf679a5c76ba6c744437ab42c9.png

As I've previously said, the support for mural was apologised for. The irony comments were directed at 2 specific individuals, Millett and Hoffman, who had been arrested banned from parliament. The wreath laying was for a bus full of Palestinian kids.

Which idiots harassing Jewish MPs in Liverpool? 

Sam Gorst for example. If you read up on how Luciana Berger and Louise Ellman was pushed out of their seats you'd see that pockets of Labour are pretty clearly AS. @bickster lives up there and probably has much more input on this than me, but from what I'm reading JC's leadership and increase in hard left members made several of the Liverpool CLP's meetings into depositions on Louise Ellman's loyalties and how much of a Zionist she was.

Quote

Locally, the new members made it clear that I should be removed as an MP.

I was defined as a Zionist which was regarded as a term of abuse, challenged about my loyalty to this country and told that Israel was not only responsible for the rise in antisemitism it also allegedly funded Isis. I was even asked if I would “withdraw my support for attacking Isis in Syria in case it hurt an Israeli soldier.”

The regular monthly Labour Party meetings I attended became interrogations about Israel/Palestine .

I was on trial.

They were, in the words of a member who complained to the Labour Party “like a punishment cell”.

Even the national Labour Party agreed that antisemitism had occurred in Liverpool Riverside Labour Party with “disturbing regularity”. Yet no disciplinary action was ever taken.

And before we go there, yes I know the article is from the Daily Express, conservative newspaper, brainwashing, insert hard left defense mechanism yadi yada...

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46 minutes ago, darrenm said:

This is an absolute statement

Yes, correct it is. One that doesn't apportion any right or wrong. You appear to be saying the evidence is all there, I'm saying it absolutely isn't. In fact I had to go to the website you linked to to find out the details. I'd rather not have had to do that. My comment was based on the contents of your post, which misses out a hell of a lot

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