blandy Posted November 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 minute ago, HanoiVillan said: The people suggesting this has been a big win for the Labour party seem very thin on the ground, one way or the other. Yeah, it's a mess. I think it's only in recent years that the trend of not accepting responsibility and denying findings has come about. Corbyn had no problem hiding from the media when he was leader, and there was nothing stopping him from (if he wanted to) heading them off by saying "I'll read the report and comment once I've digested all its findings in a day or two". He's just a poor judge of the politics of communication. He talks when he should keep quiet, and keeps quiet (or kept quiet) when he should have been talking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 minute ago, blandy said: ... the trend of not accepting responsibility... Ooh, the irony. History will come a calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Xann said: Ooh, the irony. History will come a calling. I hope so, though I dunno who you're referring to in this instance? Brexiters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, blandy said: He's just a poor judge of the politics of communication. He talks when he should keep quiet, and keeps quiet (or kept quiet) when he should have been talking. I don't particularly disagree with this, but - I'm sure it comes as no surprise - I don't think that being an arguably 'poor judge of the politics of communication' is an offence that requires suspension and/or having the whip withdrawn. There are dozens of people in parliament who would meet that description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: He's Australian, pretty sure he doesn't get a vote at all, although that's besides the point. Its not really because i think blandy has a point. Its easy to blame that creep murdoch but the labour party has to take responsibility and its share of the blame for losing the last 3 elections. I mean losing to a bafoon like johnson by such margains is embarassing. Edited November 18, 2020 by Demitri_C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, blandy said: I hope so, though I dunno who you're referring to in this instance? Brexiters? Well aye, them too. The people that decided Corbyn was unelectable, seemingly without considering the alternative. Repent at leisure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Just now, Demitri_C said: Its not really because i think blandy has a point. Its easy to blame that creep murdoch but the labour party has to take responsibility and its shame of the blame for losing thw last 3 elections. I mean losing to a bafoon like johnson by such margains is embarassing. The country has elected every single party that Murdoch and The Sun has backed. The only Labour election victories were under Blair, a close personal friend of Murdoch. It's up to you if you believe that's coincidence or coercion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 Just now, darrenm said: The country has elected every single party that Murdoch and The Sun has backed. The only Labour election victories were under Blair, a close personal friend of Murdoch. It's up to you if you believe that's coincidence or coercion. Do we know how many readers the sun has compared to the general population ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: buffoon Not arguing with you Dem, I think you're in another dimension 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I don't particularly disagree with this, but - I'm sure it comes as no surprise - I don't think that being an arguably 'poor judge of the politics of communication' is an offence that requires suspension and/or having the whip withdrawn. There are dozens of people in parliament who would meet that description. Sure there are. Though I don't perceive he was suspended for being a poor judge of when to talk or not to talk. He was suspended for what he said, the timing added to the impact, obviously, but he bluntly contradicted the party response to the EHRC report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 18, 2020 Author Share Posted November 18, 2020 Just now, Xann said: Not arguing with you Dem, I think you're in another dimension We know your hatred for the tories you only tell us 100 times a day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Do we know how many readers the sun has compared to the general population ? It doesn't work like that. The newspapers create the news and the TV stations amplify it. Every Sunday morning, Marr gets out the overwhelmingly right wing papers to discuss them. Every night, the BBC news will make whichever news story from the paper their lead story - generally that's something which they think the nation can use as the talking point du jour e.g. Jeremy Corbyn All of this stuff gets recycled and regurgitated but it all starts with whichever narrative an editor wants to create. Don't underestimate the power of the newspapers. As long as they exist, they control what people think, whether people will admit it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 18, 2020 15 minutes ago, Xann said: Well aye, them too. The people that decided Corbyn was unelectable, seemingly without considering the alternative. Repent at leisure. There's no repenting on my part. None. I didn't vote, but had I done, it would have made no difference - big Tory majority in this safe seat. Normally I vote for the Green Party if they put someone up, not because they'll win here, they won't, but because every vote a party gets delivers them a tiny bit of funding. Last election I was abroad, and didn't get a postal vote through the door before I left, so couldn't vote. Two unpalatable alternatives doesn't offer any kind of choice - "which leg would Sir like broken today?" Labour has to offer better than they did to win. As much as I loathe the tories, you can't rely on "I'm not a tory" to win you an election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 18, 2020 15 minutes ago, darrenm said: The country has elected every single party that Murdoch and The Sun has backed The Sun has looked at the runes and backed every single winning party. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, darrenm said: As long as they exist, they control what people think, whether people will admit it or not. Do they control what you think, Darren? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 18, 2020 It seems like if America is a guide, it's social media which has much more of an influence over people's opinions or beliefs than the (traditional) media. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, blandy said: There's no repenting on my part. Figured. Like I said, history will come a calling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, blandy said: Do they control what you think, Darren? Yes, Pete. Do they control you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 18, 2020 29 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I assume he made a statement 'the moment the report came out' because he had the world's media chasing him around as usual, Sorry Hanoi, can't agree with this. Firstly as has been pointed out, he's never had a problem saying nothing to the press when it suits him Secondly, it was known that the report was coming out on that day and an instruction from Starmer had been to not comment on it that day (to give the victims of AS their chance to respond first) but many people, friends and allies of Corbyn tried to persuade him no to say anything that day. Friends including Angela Rayner and John McDonnel plu others. His statement was no off the cuff reaction to the press hounding him, it was a deliberate and considered act made after much debate with him and his comrades comrades in the preceding days. It was clearly more important to him to get his 2p in and knowingly take the attention away from the victims of Labour Party AS than it was to be quiet for a day or so That for me absolutely highlights the type of man he is. At face value he accepts that there has been some AS in the Labour Party but he really didn't want to give the victims any space to have their say. He knew that his statement would grab all the media attention in this story and went ahead to change the narrative at their expense 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, blandy said: There's no repenting on my part. None. I didn't vote, but had I done, it would have made no difference - big Tory majority in this safe seat. Normally I vote for the Green Party if they put someone up, not because they'll win here, they won't, but because every vote a party gets delivers them a tiny bit of funding. Last election I was abroad, and didn't get a postal vote through the door before I left, so couldn't vote. To unpalatable alternative doesn't offer any kind of choice - "which leg would Sir like broken today?" Labour has to offer better than they did to win. As much as I loathe the tories, you can't rely on "I'm not a tory" to win you an election. God this sounds exactly like the recent Australian elections. A conservative party ripe for the taking and a weak centre leftish opposition who can't take advantage, with Murdoch scare campaigning hard for the conservatives. I think a popular and charismatic leader on the centre left is probably more important than it ever has been. The Australian Labor party have been absolutely shocking at generating one of these over the last decade. However, it has to come with a strong policy platform which demonstrates to people how progressive policy is going to help them. Without strong messaging, it's too easy for Murdoch to plaster all over his front pages how bad Labour/Labor will be for the economy, regardless of how grounded in fact that position is. I was a Corbyn fan but he was successfully undermined by the media and ran on a weak platform. Just now, blandy said: It seems like if America is a guide, it's social media which has much more of an influence over people's opinions or beliefs than the (traditional) media. The traditional media still has big influence over older generations, who are a huge proportion of voters and obviously tend to vote conservative. Loosening Murdoch's stranglehold on the media in both of our countries is pretty important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts