HanoiVillan Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 2 hours ago, chrisp65 said: In 10 years time when a lot of the older demographic have died off, I strongly suspect the younger demographic.... will be ten years older. In fact, the tipping point of turning in to a tory is getting younger. Well . . . that's true and it isn't. 'The turning point of turning into a Tory' significantly increased in 2017 (it was discussed at length on this site post-election) and then decreased significantly in 2019. In other words, it is far from clear that it's a meaningful data point that tells you anything other than that the Tories won by 12 points this time. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 18, 2020 13 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: I don't think I agree with much of this post. What is meant by 'attention' here? And how are you measuring money received here? It can't be in local government funding, because that has been cut more for cities and near-cities than it has for other areas, with Liverpool seeing the largest decline in funding per capita of any council over the last ten years, and London seeing the largest decline in absolute terms. What's more, councils that have received funding cuts have largely had to make up the difference by raising council taxes and business rates, which is harder for the most deprived areas (nearly all within cities). I'm going on things like Gov't transport spending per Capita, where the North (the area whose towns LN is talking about) gets and got far less than the south. Factor on to that that what the North does get is biased towards cities and people in towns and villages suffer with some pretty dire transport compared to the south. Quote New analysis of the government’s planned transport spending shows that, unless investment in the Northern Powerhouse goes ahead, London is set to receive almost 3 times more per person than the North; and 7 times more per person than in Yorkshire and the Humber or the North East While the capital will receive £3,636 per person, the North will receive just £1,247 per person and within the North, Yorkshire and the Humber will see just £511; the North East £519; and the North West £2,062 per person Meanwhile, analysis of past transport spending shows that if the North had seen the same per person investment as London over the last decade, it would have received £66 billion more Also in terms of the refugees example I mentioned Quote Rochdale: where every 200th person is an asylum seeker The north-west town has a higher concentration of asylum seekers than anywhere in England. Locals have been both generous and furious... ....the asylum dispersal scheme is heavily skewed towards poorer parts of the country. Rochdale ranks in the poorest 15% of the UK by median annual income. And so on. I understand your comments and it's far from a universal single "well these cities get this and those towns don't" type situation, but given what LN has raised, facts do back up what she's saying about a lot of towns being left behind. By the way there's aspects that the gov't is powerless to change - the world is different, and businesses, students, workers etc. want to move to cities for very good reasons. But Gov't needs to not just forget about the places which have been hollowed out, let alone dump asylum seekers there, where there are already inadequate facilities and infrastructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 18, 2020 Lisa Nandy Talks Bollocks Pt 34567 From The Mirror Quote Lisa Nandy vows to use British steel in Government contracts if she becomes PM EXCLUSIVE: The 40-year-old believes the industry should be central to discussions about the future of the economy and says the use of use British steel will revitalise destroyed communities Lisa Nandy shows she knows jack shit about the type of specialised steel we produce in the UK. Much like Oil, we export a lot and have to import a lot because we don't produce all the types of steel we need but we make bloody good steel for very specialised projects that few others do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veloman Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, bickster said: Lisa Nandy Talks Bollocks Pt 34567 From The Mirror Much like Oil, we export a lot and have to import a lot because we don't produce all the types of steel we need but we make bloody good steel for very specialised projects that few others do Not meant to be trite but just a small example; Reynolds bike tubing for the very few hand made frame builders left in the UK. My steel bike was made in Derby and the geezer in the shop told me that the biggest market was the USA. They don't have anything like it over there hence 10 months waiting list for a new frame. Reynolds is/was Birmingham based. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 20, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 20, 2020 Ah good old Wavertree CLP, rarely a week goes by... (thread to find out more) CM is a current councillor, she's being trolled by an anon account (who everyone connected knows who it is from the things being said) The CLP needs closing and expelling a good chunk of the membership, its rotten literally to the core The loony (former Militant) left in that party dislikes the councillor because she's been a leading force behind the the Love Wavertree community campaign (a good thing) along with other CLP members but they don't want their events politicised because they really are just doing it for the community and not to garner votes Good Labour getting abused by Bad Labour. Nothing changes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 1 hour ago, snowychap said: A very good thread IMO. These two posts: . . . also illustrate why I don't think it should be viewed as a failure when the Tories adopt certain Labour policies; obviously I would prefer a Labour government, but a Tory government that has stolen Labour's policy on eg the energy price cap is better than a Tory government that hasn't done so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 The best data point is how the policies shape up when taken as a collective, that for me is the most salient factor in this. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 5 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: The best data point is how the policies shape up when taken as a collective, that for me is the most salient factor in this. If that ever happened, I’d totally agree. But its not possible to know as its all covered in the fug of comment and opinion and verbatim passing on of tory spin that currently masquerades as news. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 20, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 20, 2020 5 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: The best data point is how the policies shape up when taken as a collective, that for me is the most salient factor in this. Yes, and I'd tie it to this from one of the tweets in the thread Quote This fascinating study shows that voters’ belief that a party is extreme, drives perceptions that they are also incompetent Now from personal reading and looking and stuff, I'd say (for me) they are/were incompetent in reality, not just through perception of extremism. I've said multiple times I liked about half their policies, and thought about a quarter were quite daft, so as a net liker of their policies, a mix of incompetence (much of which is not massively reported, but has leaked out since and a bit before the election), a truly dire leader and surrounding team, and then zealotry from a significant section of their members and supporters which actively hounded people away from supporting or considering voting for them, and as you say, or at least imply, a Brexity fudge that made no sense on the biggest issue, they were doomed and have been for a good period now. If they elect another Corbynite, the same will happen next time and the effing tories will win again. They've got to get the effwits, (see @bickster's example above) completely out of the party or at least any influence on it. I see also that the leader candidates are now falling over themselves (with one exception) to 'fess up about the way the party handled anti-semitism and admit they got dealing with the problem wrong, and that there is/was a problem. That's a start. It's not me saying more left wing people couldn't win, but that you can't have a set of people setting the direction who formed their opinions in the early 70s on everything and then if challenged on them get all pissy. They need to be able to provide valid arguments, and address challenges to their orthodoxy and views and listen and adapt and persuade and engage, not get the hump and let their accolytes start with the trolling and abuse while turning a blind eye themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Phillips out, good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Phillips out, good. An ignominious end to a terrible campaign. Her column in the Guardian (Observer?) the other day really should have persuaded the other candidates that she would be completely unsuitable for a shadow cabinet role as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted January 22, 2020 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 22, 2020 Bit late now, but... some of you may remember my post from some years ago about my mate who's a Jeremy Corbyn lookalike (and supporter - pic below). Anyway, this week he sent me this message about a recent encounter with the Villa (he's a WBA fan, BTW)... Quote Before the election I was up visiting my Mum in Brum. Arrived at Aston station ,unfortunately coinciding with end of the Villa home match so platform was absolutely packed with fans heading home. I could barely get off the train .However ,having succeeded in doing so went to the stairs , which are steep and lead down to the roadside .At the foot of the stairs a whole throng of Villa fans were waiting behind a cordon of stewards poised to get up onto the platform. As I descended the stairs the two hundred or so at the base started singing O Jeremy Corbyn O Jeremy Corbyn ..I passed through the cordon and one fan said amusingly Good job you're not Boris Johnson otherwise you'd have got a good beating! ...Made my day ! 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 This is me, joined and lapsed because of Corbyn. Joined again to vote, and be a part of a better future. That's the hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 So, Unite have gone for Wrong Daily. 14 years of tory rule it is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 25, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 25, 2020 On 25/01/2020 at 00:04, Davkaus said: So, Unite have gone for Wrong Daily. 14 years of tory rule it is. Hardly a shock with Red Len at the helm. It was always going to be that way. Fortunately beyond getting their permission to stand it means sod all with one member one vote in the final stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 27, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 27, 2020 Talking of Red Len, the father of Jenny Formbie's child had this to say yesterday, no one else pick up on this? Right at the top of the tree, the most influential union leader in the current Labour Party, trotting (Soz) out the antisemitism doesn't really exist in the Labour Party, it was just an excuse to get at Corbyn line on National TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted January 27, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 27, 2020 20 minutes ago, bickster said: Right at the top of the tree, the most influential union leader in the current Labour Party, trotting (Soz) out the antisemitism doesn't really exist in the Labour Party, it was just an excuse to get at Corbyn line on National TV It's not the first time. He was doing it when the thing first surfaced. The bloke is a disgrace. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 27, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted January 27, 2020 4 hours ago, bickster said: Talking of Red Len, the father of Jenny Formbie's child had this to say yesterday, no one else pick up on this? Right at the top of the tree, the most influential union leader in the current Labour Party, trotting (Soz) out the antisemitism doesn't really exist in the Labour Party, it was just an excuse to get at Corbyn line on National TV I don't take that reading of that at all. He's saying the issue was used nefariously. He's correct. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 He’s half correct. It was used as a weapon by others. It was easily nullified but they didn’t have either the wit or desire to close it down. But today really isn’t the day for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts