colhint Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Long term leader? She's been a member of the labour part for 50 years. Can't think of anyone who has been her leader for a shorter time. And why is she facing deselection? She's been an mp for 20 years. What has she done wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 17, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 hours ago, dAVe80 said: And the opposite has happened in the City of Durham seat. The left candidate hasn't been long listed, despite having the support of a large portion of the exec of her CLP, support from the members and branches, as well as the backing of local union officials. I have absolutely no idea where the people selected / not selected for the list lay their political hats in West Derby tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 17, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2019 8 hours ago, colhint said: Long term leader? She's been a member of the labour part for 50 years. Can't think of anyone who has been her leader for a shorter time. And why is she facing deselection? She's been an mp for 20 years. What has she done wrong? She's been an MP for 22 years, Corbyn's been her leader for 4, that's a decent chunk of time of politics. Brown served for 3, Miliband 5 and Blair's obviously the outlier that she was under for the longest. Given that she seems to have had an issue with alleged anti-Semitism for 3 years, it's odd that is only at the point of deselection she decides she can no longer accept it and that Corbyn is unfit to be leader. And also odd that she seems to think she'd be happy to be back in the party under another leader, as if Corbyn is the Pied Piper of anti-Jewish racists. As for her being deselected, it seems the local party doesn't want a Blairite and she's also been disingenuous in her criticisms of the party, the local party, etc etc. But even setting that aside, I don't have an issue with local parties wanting to have a greater say in who represents them. If they don't like Ellman, they should be able to get rid of her. It's remarkable so many fall for it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 17, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 17, 2019 9 hours ago, colhint said: Long term leader? She's been a member of the labour part for 50 years. Can't think of anyone who has been her leader for a shorter time. And why is she facing deselection? She's been an mp for 20 years. What has she done wrong? Jewish, essentially. Member of LFOI, campaigned against anti-semitism in the Labour Party, she's had the same shit thrown at her for possibly longer than Luciana Berger and yes she doesn't like Corbyn. But disliking the leader is not why her deselection process was started. The Israel card has been thrown at Ellman locally for a lot longer than Corbyn has been the leader, a lot longer, the Corbyn thing is almost an excuse. It was certainly some coincidence that they announced the deselction process on Yom Kippur, it was like it had to be that day, it was too good to ignore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Chindie said: She's been an MP for 22 years, Corbyn's been her leader for 4, that's a decent chunk of time of politics. Brown served for 3, Miliband 5 and Blair's obviously the outlier that she was under for the longest. Given that she seems to have had an issue with alleged anti-Semitism for 3 years, it's odd that is only at the point of deselection she decides she can no longer accept it and that Corbyn is unfit to be leader. And also odd that she seems to think she'd be happy to be back in the party under another leader, as if Corbyn is the Pied Piper of anti-Jewish racists. As for her being deselected, it seems the local party doesn't want a Blairite and she's also been disingenuous in her criticisms of the party, the local party, etc etc. But even setting that aside, I don't have an issue with local parties wanting to have a greater say in who represents them. If they don't like Ellman, they should be able to get rid of her. It's remarkable so many fall for it. If you've paid attention to Wavertree and Riverside for the last 30 odd years you wouldn't be calling it "alleged" anti-semitism. It's sweeping statements like that which has made racist thugs like Derek Hatton feel comfortable enough to try to get back into the party under JC. I suppose getting a vote of no confidence on the holiest day of the year for herself and her family was random too, right? It's like getting fired on Christmas Morning. The issue with JC is that he can't separate his current persona from his past persona where he'd invite Hamas into parliament, not see racism when it shouted with him at "anti-racist" rallies, and attend commemoration ceremonies for proven terrorists amongst a whole host of other dubious decisions. Ellman has had to deal with racism for the last 25 odd years, Corbyn is not at fault for most of those years. Corbyn is definitely at fault for propagating a lot of the issues that have cropped up under his current inactive leadership though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 17, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, magnkarl said: If you've paid attention to Wavertree and Riverside for the last 30 odd years you wouldn't be calling it "alleged" anti-semitism. It's sweeping statements like that which has made racist thugs like Derek Hatton feel comfortable enough to try to get back into the party under JC. I suppose getting a vote of no confidence on the holiest day of the year for herself and her family was random too, right? It's like getting fired on Christmas Morning. The issue with JC is that he can't separate his current persona from his past persona where he'd invite Hamas into parliament, not see racism when it shouted with him at "anti-racist" rallies, and attend commemoration ceremonies for proven terrorists amongst a whole host of other dubious decisions. Ellman has had to deal with racism for the last 25 odd years, Corbyn is not at fault for most of those years. Corbyn is definitely at fault for propagating a lot of the issues that have cropped up under his current inactive leadership though. I wasn't talking about the last 30 years. I said the last 3. When suddenly it was a big deal, when it's not particularly clear there's any issue that has grown notably under the current leadership. If she has been subject to decades of abuse the sudden pop is even more bizarre. Her issue is obviously she is going to be booted out and hates the leadership so went for the most cutting parting jab she could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 17, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 17, 2019 55 minutes ago, Chindie said: it's not particularly clear there's any issue that has grown notably under the current leadership It is clear as day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I know its hard to stomach but they have to accept that labour under Corbyn are not electable. If we have an election coming soon then labour need to make a hard, but correct decision. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 17, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2019 Corbyn will be ditched after the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chindie said: Corbyn will be ditched after the election. Too late, if Johnson runs on this deal or no deal as his manifesto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 17, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2019 It's too late to replace Corbyn unless the election is a lot further off than anyone expects. And trying to oust him again is just the party self sabotaging again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 I'd probably vote Green if Labour went for Jess Philips. I'd prefer Laura Pidcock, second to that Keir Starmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 17, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2019 Phillips is being groomed for a front bench role in the future. Probably won't be as PM, she's not statesman like but I could see her getting maybe as high as Home Sec. Starmer will be the push. Watson will go for it but he's so untrustworthy nobody will ultimately back him to the death. There'll be a token Corbyn successor from the left of the party (but not too left) for the look of the thing. Whoever it is dependent on which side wins you'll either have the continued attack from the right of the party to undermine the leadership or they'll change ends and Momentum will do will what the Blairites have spent 4 years doing. They'll need to find a convenient cutting jab to help them though, the antisemitism will vanish the moment Corbyn's lot fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 All going to plan, comrades. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 On 17/10/2019 at 12:13, Chindie said: Her issue is obviously she is going to be booted out and hates the leadership so went for the most cutting parting jab she could. Jewish Voice for Labour have produced a report on the details of the allegations in the Ellman case. Some familiar themes appear, such as criticism of her anti-Palestinian views being reported as antisemitism. The same old tactics. Quote This JVL investigation details clashes between Liverpool Riverside MP Louise Ellman and Constituency Labour Party members, including Jews, who say they have been the victim of baseless allegations of antisemitism, wild charges based on a contested interview recording and a scurrilous dossier posted anonymously on a far-right blog. This and much more is revealed in an exhaustive report backed up by 16 appendices including interview transcripts, letters, email exchanges, reports and submissions. For the first time, the silenced voices of members of Ellman’s constituency party can be heard countering the uncorroborated attacks on them in the BBC Panorama documentary Is Labour Antisemitic? broadcast in July... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted October 18, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted October 18, 2019 Usual story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 18, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, peterms said: Jewish Voice for Labour have produced a report on the details of the allegations in the Ellman case. Some familiar themes appear, such as criticism of her anti-Palestinian views being reported as antisemitism. The same old tactics. Thanks for the comedy. Any report as part of its rebutal that says Eddie Loyden was not a supporter of Militant (note supporter not member) is beyond silly, he clearly was and I say that as someone who was active in the Liverpool Labur Party at the time on the fringes of Militant (never a member myself) “a systematic campaign by Ellman and her anti-Corbyn allies” <- Yep no bias there at all And as for the laughable defence of Audrey White, previously expelled by the party for being a Militant member and even after rejoining has been reprimanded by the NEC for bullying, thats a Corbyn era NEC by the way. You see mention of a "doctored recording", I have no idea what this is about but I see no actual evidence presented as to why its doctored, iit's supposedly in the appendices (#15) but doesn't currently exist. Surely as it was radio phone in, they could just have asked the Radio Station for a copy to rebut this? No? Too simple? In fact a simple SAR to the station would have resolved this. None of the appendices appear to be there, which given that the article is a whole 2 days old seems to me like they were never there As usual, its always a little from Column A and a little from Column B Louise Ellman has faced anti-semitic attacks from within her own CLP, seen it and heard it with my own eyes again from people I'm familiar with (much like in Wavertree CLP) and I'm not talking about the supporting Palestine against Israel type, I'm talking about the "Jewish Bitch" type Louise Ellman is anti-Corbyn, that is her democrtic right, she has been demonised as much for that as her fight against antisemitism (which seem to get conflated by many of the opposite view) Is everything Ellman complained about anti-semitic? No Has she been the victim of anti-semitic attacks? Yes Boiled down, it's a straight left / right fight in the Labour Party, one side can't control themselves and this manifests itself in antisemitism, the other side embelish stuff to make it seem like it's worse than it is. Both sides are guilty of makng shit up Having said that though, there is still anti-semitism in the Labour Party and in Riverside & Wavertree CLPs in particular 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) Salma Yaqoob shortlisted to run to be West Midlands mayor. She is an utterly disgusting and vile individual who should be no where near the Labour party let alone on a mayoral candidate shortlist. Edited October 22, 2019 by Dr_Pangloss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 22, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 22, 2019 36 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Salma Yaqoob shortlisted to run to be West Midlands mayor. She is an utterly disgusting and vile individual who should be no where near the Labour party let alone on a mayoral candidate shortlist. You just can't RESPECT the democratic process, can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted October 22, 2019 Moderator Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Salma Yaqoob shortlisted to run to be West Midlands mayor. She is an utterly disgusting and vile individual who should be no where near the Labour party let alone on a mayoral candidate shortlist. Why? I've always thought she was basically OK. Even if you don't like her politics I can't think of anything Vile and Disgusting she's said or done. She's had various racist nuckfuggets and Islamical extremist nutters issue death threats against her and anyone who manages to piss off both those two fringe barmpots can't be all that bad, can they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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