tonyh29 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 5 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Whenever you see Corbyn speak live and directly, without the opinion of others between you and him, I always find he's quietly impressive. A pity we have the media we do. I think the media line is wearing a bit thin now ... as for the Islington one , I think that would depend on ones political bias to be honest , if he were a Tory you’d be swearing at your TV every time he spoke , He’s a terrible opposition leader and I think even his own party accept he’s a liability now 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted September 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I think the media line is wearing a bit thin now ... as for the Islington one , I think that would depend on ones political bias to be honest , if he were a Tory you’d be swearing at your TV every time he spoke , He’s a terrible opposition leader and I think even his own party accept he’s a liability now I don’t think there’s any revisionism going on here, I don’t think Corbyn has changed. I think he’s being viewed in the light of the alternative. It’s difficult now to just say Corbyn is an incompetent extremist after the month / week / day that Johnson has just offered up. Of the two, Johnson now looks a worse choice. For me, it looked like after today other opposition parties were ready to consider giving Corbyn the short term nod just to get this dangerous bully, this serial liar, this sexually incontinent horror away from power. He was disgusting today, absolutely disgusting. Perhaps Corbyn can now be viewed as less bad than the alternative. Well, for me there’s no ‘perhaps’ about it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I don’t think there’s any revisionism going on here, I don’t think Corbyn has changed. I think he’s being viewed in the light of the alternative. It’s difficult now to just say Corbyn is an incompetent extremist after the month / week / day that Johnson has just offered up. Of the two, Johnson now looks a worse choice. For me, it looked like after today other opposition parties were ready to consider giving Corbyn the short term nod just to get this dangerous bully, this serial liar, this sexually incontinent horror away from power. He was disgusting today, absolutely disgusting. Perhaps Corbyn can now be viewed as less bad than the alternative. Well, for me there’s no ‘perhaps’ about it. the conversation was about Corbyn being impressive not about the merits of Boris Johnson , I would wait along until the usual suspects give you an “ah but “ post.... But this is VT , you’ll get the likes for the johnson comments whilst i’m chased out of town with pitchforks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 (edited) Well, in the land of the blind, and all that. My guess is that by default his stock has risen because Johnson has had such a shocking time of it. But by the same token, it is fascinating to see the number of people willing to excuse him or avert their gaze because the end justifies the means. Corbyn has become more impressive simply via the act of not being the other guy, the raving liar etc etc.. Edited September 25, 2019 by chrisp65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 When we consider Corbyn is better, we should think of it in the light of "I have a broken leg, so I guess this diarrhea isn't too bad". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 From BBC live: Quote We have to treat each other with respect," Mr Corbyn says. He says, if MPs don't, then people on our streets "feel emboldened" to be violent. He is right that the MPs need to treat each other with respect. He is wrong to think that anyone in the country takes them as any sort of an example of how to behave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 8 hours ago, Mic09 said: He is wrong to think that anyone in the country takes them as any sort of an example of how to behave. I think you'd be wrong then. Certainly people use them to justify their actions and the tone of their language will certainly stoke the flames in some. Terms such as cowards, traitors, betrayal, surrender. It is no surprise that since the Brexit vote instances of hate crime have gone up as those with xenophobic views feel that view has now been legitimised and abusing Johnny Foreigner is now fair game. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 8 hours ago, Mic09 said: He is wrong to think that anyone in the country takes them as any sort of an example of how to behave. It's a pretty good job where he is concerned that the public don't take any notice, if we were all as decisive and competent as Corbyn on a daily basis most of us wouldn't make it back from the local shop with bread and milk successfully. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 26, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 26, 2019 10 hours ago, chrisp65 said: I don’t think there’s any revisionism going on here, I don’t think Corbyn has changed. I think he’s being viewed in the light of the alternative. It’s difficult now to just say Corbyn is an incompetent extremist after the month / week / day that Johnson has just offered up. Of the two, Johnson now looks a worse choice. For me, it looked like after today other opposition parties were ready to consider giving Corbyn the short term nod just to get this dangerous bully, this serial liar, this sexually incontinent horror away from power. He was disgusting today, absolutely disgusting. Perhaps Corbyn can now be viewed as less bad than the alternative. Well, for me there’s no ‘perhaps’ about it. I dunno, Chris. I think he's changed quite a bit - not fundamentally, but he's got better (less bad) at the whole speaking business - the PMQs part and all that. He's still no great shakes at it. I still percieve him as not competent and holding some views, which whether you want to call them extremist or not, are not (IMO) compatible with being PM. I completely agree Johnson is utterly appalling and that in a comparison with Corbyn, Corbyn comes out as less bad. But I don't think that "not being as appalling as Boris Johnson" is any kind of recommendation really. I can't see, whatever the various oppo parties think, enough tories or former tories agreeing to support a temporary Corbyn PM thing for the maths to work. He's had some good moments recently, but he still also has just as many, if not more stinkers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 26, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 26, 2019 Not really sure there is a correct topic for this but this one seems most appropriate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted September 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted September 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, bickster said: Not really sure there is a correct topic for this but this one seems most appropriate Interesting split of opinions on this at Chez P The two oldest think yes, the two youngest think no. For me, if someone can be married, be in employment, and in the army etc., then they should be able to vote. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 15 hours ago, markavfc40 said: It is no surprise that since the Brexit vote instances of hate crime have gone up as those with xenophobic views feel that view has now been legitimised and abusing Johnny Foreigner is now fair game. Reports of instances of hate crime have gone up that doesn’t necessarily equate to the same thing , someone being told to go back home 5 years ago might not have reported it where as now you can go on line and do it in seconds or if you are a Portuguese actress you can go on sky news and report it weve also had direct attacks on our streets by Muslim terrorists ,London and Manchester in 2017 for example , I’d imagine they have caused an increase in hate crimes that aren’t related to brexit xenophobia Reading a few of the cases and sentencing l noticed quite a lot of these hate attacks on appear to be carried out by people with mental health issues , a bit like homelessness you could possible find a correlation in cuts to services in this area and attacks , brexit may have empowered them as you suggest but it could be attributed to cuts in care also some of the hate crimes have been carried out by Johnny Foreigner , the bacon in the mosque one was carried out by some Polish youths , for example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: Interesting split of opinions on this at Chez P The two oldest think yes, the two youngest think no. For me, if someone can be married, be in employment, and in the army etc., then they should be able to vote. ( As long as they vote the way you want them to ) Isn’t it only for a second referendum and not a GE ? I can’t possibly think why labour would want kids fresh out of school having been brainwashed by lefty teachers , a vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 2 hours ago, tonyh29 said: ( As long as they vote the way you want them to ) Isn’t it only for a second referendum and not a GE ? I can’t possibly think why labour would want kids fresh out of school having been brainwashed by lefty teachers , a vote My kid at 16 would have voted for Enoch Powell. I would have dreaded her being able to put an x in a box at that age. I also thin k 16 is too young to get married, and serve in the army. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 6 hours ago, tonyh29 said: ( As long as they vote the way you want them to ) Isn’t it only for a second referendum and not a GE ? I can’t possibly think why labour would want kids fresh out of school having been brainwashed by lefty teachers , a vote From my own personal experience, I voted opposite to my parents. I can’t possibly think what the army would want 16 and 17 year olds fresh out of school for. It’s like, once they’ve got to 20 and see we perpetually try to do war on a budget in places we don’t understand, they’ve got more savvy than to get involved. I can’t see how someone is ready for military training, but not adult enough to vote in local elections? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 42 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: From my own personal experience, I voted opposite to my parents. I can’t possibly think what the army would want 16 and 17 year olds fresh out of school for. It’s like, once they’ve got to 20 and see we perpetually try to do war on a budget in places we don’t understand, they’ve got more savvy than to get involved. I can’t see how someone is ready for military training, but not adult enough to vote in local elections? You can start military training but you need consent from your parents if you are under 18 Also a government foi request (admittedly from 2014) showed the average enlistment age was 20 years and 8 months maybe pick another example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: You can start military training but you need consent from your parents if you are under 18 Nice compromise then. 16 year olds get the vote if they have parental consent. Sorted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 On 25/09/2019 at 12:52, ml1dch said: So, while I personally consider this to be A Good Thing, what exactly is the point now of a "Labour negotiated deal"? They're fully signed up to a Customs Union, Single Market alignment, and now all four freedoms of the EU. So apart from "the removal of all our representation in Council, Parliament and Commission" what exactly are they negotiating to get? Or to put it another way, in May 2020 What is Prime Minister Corbyn's response in interviews during the referendum campaign when he is asked "why have you bothered to do this?" was thinking about this again today for some reason , Enfranchising the around 3.6m EU citizens living in the UK with the right to vote presumably with a view on a potential second Brexit referendum , surely means that everyone living in the Uk should be entitled to a vote on a second Scottish referendum once the SNP get their way ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted September 27, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 27, 2019 1 hour ago, tonyh29 said: surely means that everyone living in the Uk should be entitled to a vote on a second Scottish referendum once the SNP get their way ? If they live in Scotland, then why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, blandy said: If they live in Scotland, then why not? I was thinking the where they lived in the UK part wouldn't be relevant ? If a person from say Italy has the right to vote in a referendum affecting the Uk , presumably as it also directly affects them , why shouldn't that same person have a right to vote in a Scottish referendum that also affects the UK ? maybe Gina Miller fancies a new challenge once Brexit is over Edited September 27, 2019 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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