Sam-AVFC Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Doesn’t Tom Watson still come out and contradict most of why Corbyn says? When people keep saying he doesn’t have a clear message at all it doesn’t seem a surprising move. Is it that weird, with the looming prospect of an election, for some people to think he will undermine the parties chances by being unable to agree with the leader? What these activists (and presumably the man himself) don’t seem to understand is doing this sort of thing will just get Corbyn more gutter press attention that everyone seems to love lapping up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 21, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: Doesn’t Tom Watson still come out and contradict most of why Corbyn says? When people keep saying he doesn’t have a clear message at all it doesn’t seem a surprising move. Is it that weird, with the looming prospect of an election, for some people to think he will undermine the parties chances by being unable to agree with the leader? What these activists (and presumably the man himself) don’t seem to understand is doing this sort of thing will just get Corbyn more gutter press attention that everyone seems to love lapping up. Labour is supposedly a broad church, if it carries on like this it'll more likely become the third series of Broadchurch This is how Trotsky envisioned his revolution. This is entryism, pure and simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) There's nothing quite like Corbyn's broad church is there. Seems to be driven by Momentum who Corybn has of course empowered. Momentum are quite simply a bunch of Stalinists, very dangerous. Edited September 21, 2019 by Dr_Pangloss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: Doesn’t Tom Watson still come out and contradict most of why Corbyn says? When people keep saying he doesn’t have a clear message at all it doesn’t seem a surprising move. Is it that weird, with the looming prospect of an election, for some people to think he will undermine the parties chances by being unable to agree with the leader? What these activists (and presumably the man himself) don’t seem to understand is doing this sort of thing will just get Corbyn more gutter press attention that everyone seems to love lapping up. How dare he disagree with Dear Leader, how dare he have his own opinions and beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: How dare he disagree with Dear Leader, how dare he have his own opinions and beliefs. That was my exact point, not that it is probably a (misguided) attempt to have a consolidated message going into an election Also it appears ‘Dear Leader’ is going to be blocking the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 27 minutes ago, bickster said: Labour is supposedly a broad church, if it carries on like this it'll more likely become the third series of Broadchurch This is how Trotsky envisioned his revolution. This is entryism, pure and simple I haven’t watched Broadchurch, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that it’s a good line! I’m not defending the actions, just pointing out why I don’t think it’s surprising. Of course parties need to have a range of views if they ever want to develop and improve policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 21, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2019 26 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: That was my exact point, not that it is probably a (misguided) attempt to have a consolidated message going into an election Also it appears ‘Dear Leader’ is going to be blocking the move. He won't be Dear Leader much longer anyway, if they don't get rid of Watson now, they'll do it when the new puppet is installed after the next election. They are already sizing up the coffin by all accounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted September 21, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2019 Personally, I don't like him, he's had his eye on the leadership spot for a while and he's been working to undermine his current party leader pretty much non-stop for the last couple of years. I'll be happy to see him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 35 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: That was my exact point, not that it is probably a (misguided) attempt to have a consolidated message going into an election Also it appears ‘Dear Leader’ is going to be blocking the move. Blocking a vote but authorising an 'investigation'. Hmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 21, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2019 45 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Personally, I don't like him, he's had his eye on the leadership spot for a while and he's been working to undermine his current party leader pretty much non-stop for the last couple of years. I'll be happy to see him go. Is there any actual evidence of where his eye has been looking? He’s been working to get Labour’s antisemitism problem solved, I’ve seen that much. He’s been working to attempt to get the Corbynistas to understand that Remain is what the majority of members and Labour voters want, I’ve seen that much too. Does that mean he's got his eye on the top job? I seriously doubt he’s stupid enough to think that’s a realistic aim in the current climate Guess what the Tom Watson wants to be leader thing is? Yep, it’s classic bogeyman stuff from the other side. It’s obviously working 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 I have no love for Lansman. He's an opportunist, who has risen on the back of others to get himself into a position of power in the party. As much as I love that Momentum rallied ordinary people, and got them into politics, ask anyone serious on the left of the party, and they'll tell you it's pretty much run it's corse. There was shown to be a serious lack of real democracy in the movement, which has seen many fine activists seek to disassociate themselves from Momentum. Obviously those lazy enough not to bother checking still paint those on the left of the party as being Momentum, but what ya gonna do? The Watson thing is very ill timed, but I understand why it's been raised. He's been a thorn in the side of the leadership, shown contempt for his local CLP, and possibly the worse thing he's done was his treatment of Jenny Formby, while she's battling cancer. I was of the opinion his time would come, but not like this. Ironically, it's probably going to be Corbyn that's going to save him. Let's not get outraged by this idea though. The deputy leader position was only created to placate the left of the party when Blair ran the show, when he put Jonh Prescott in place as his 'socialist beard'. A broad church? Well that's ultimately what the party needs to be, but let's not pretend the right have been squeaky clean on this. Massive purges of new members when they had control of the NEC. Plus suspension for spurious reasons were common place in the build up to the second leadership contest. Then the second leader contest in its self. I've seen #stopthecoup trending on twitter. I wonder where they got that idea from? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 5 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: There's nothing quite like Corbyn's broad church is there. Seems to be driven by Momentum who Corybn has of course empowered. Momentum are quite simply a bunch of Stalinists, very dangerous. Stalinists? There’s nothing quite like hyperbole is there? I presume the young conservatives are just hitler youth in chino’s? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 Actually, I’ve just read up that most estimates have Stalinism responsible for 60 million deaths. Momentum could make my commute considerably easier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 I like how Momentum can be Tankies and Trots at the same time. Cus they famously get on very well don't they? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 21, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2019 1 hour ago, dAVe80 said: I like how Momentum can be Tankies and Trots at the same time. Cus they famously get on very well don't they? Definitely Trots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 21, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 21, 2019 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: I presume the young conservatives are just hitler youth in chino’s? Nah the hitler Youth were conscripted. Was there an SS version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) Aye and now I think about it the hitler youth were mostly quite young whereas whenever I see pictures oh ‘young conservatives’ they appear to be one spotty clearing and a bunch of hoorays that got kicked out of the Young Farmers in 1998 for being a bit too old. Young Conservatives, too old to stay in the Hitler Youth. Edited September 21, 2019 by chrisp65 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 22, 2019 Share Posted September 22, 2019 Corbyn saying the UK could be better off with the right deal, presumably that's the have your cake and eat it sort of deal that the leavers were talking up a couple of years ago. He's a complete and utter cretin. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 23, 2019 Moderator Share Posted September 23, 2019 Labour to abolish Private Schools... when the state education system is such a mess (yes of course they are going to attempt to fix that) Nothing short of class war at this stage. Fix the state Education system first, if they don't fix the state education system first this is a massive vote loser, this will just push more middle class Labour voters to the LibDems. On another level, my MP must be shitting himself, I reckon that policy alone will knock 5K off his majority. Two of the largest Private Schools in Merseyside are in his constituency and many of the local kids go to them. It's a fairly affluent Labour seat. Anyone with a child in either of those Schools systems (they both start at nursery level) isn't going to vote Labour, hell even people who have moved into the area with an eye on sending their future kids to these schools isn't going to vote Labour. Now if they'd fixed State Education first, that would be a different matter, they'd have an argument, they'd possibly get a lot of people onside but no, just abolish it. They won't dare take the really brave step of removing church funding of schools though will they, so the indoctination of impressionable minds will continue Any hope Labour had of winning an election disappeared with this policy. They need middle class voters to get into power, this just alienates huge swathes of them right now. Even on a practical / tactical level its absolutely bonkers 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted September 23, 2019 Share Posted September 23, 2019 The labour pledge to get rid of Ofsted feels like a blatant attempt to get the teachers votes ahead of a proposed General Election (much the same as the Tory rhetoric on reinvigorating law and order - another vote seeking load of bunkum!) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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