The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[peterms]

8 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Do you have any links or sources to follow this?

I might be wrong, but when May was in charge all we heard from EU is that the deal is not up for negotiation. 

I'd be happy to be proven otherwise, but I think that hoping Corbyn could negotiate anything better is far fetched. 

I'm sure you can find things if you have time, but the first thing I see on a qhick search is this.

Quote

Delaying Brexit beyond October 31 for further negotiation would be pointless unless Prime Minister Theresa May’s successor changes Britain’s red lines, Dutch PM Mark Rutte said on Thursday.

“If there are no changes in all the positions, I cannot see why it makes any sense to negotiate longer,” Rutte told the BBC in a radio interview.

“If the position doesn’t change, the only solution on the table is the current solution,” he added, referring to the deal struck between the EU and May that has been repeatedly rejected by British lawmakers.

 

[StefanAVFC]

I mean, it's common sense isn't it?

Red lines defined the deal. If we allowed freedom of movement we'd get more concessions from the EU, for example. It's how it works.

Not that I'm saying Corbyn would get a better deal, but it's fairly obvious 'you won't get a better deal' was based on what May's red lines were.

[tonyh29]

37 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Based on the UK's own imposed red lines.

If we budge, they will. Obviously.

 

 

49 minutes ago, peterms said:

That was said on the basis of the red lines remaining, wasn't it?

find me links where they state something about removal of  " red lines"  and I'll be happy to agree  , but i didn't crop the quotes I used so i didn't get the impression red lines were in play

[StefanAVFC]

It's absolutely common sense Tony. 

You go to a car garage and say 'my budget is 50k' and they present you with options within your red lines. Whilst you refused to change your red lines, they won't sell you a better car. But if your red lines changed to 70k, they wouldn't just say 'Nah, that's it. No negotiations'. They'd come back to you with different offers.

Also, Peter posted something at the top of this page.

[StefanAVFC]

But:

Quote

The European Union told Britain it could have a different kind of Brexit deal after its parliament overwhelmingly rejected the one negotiated by Prime Minister Theresa May -- but only if London changes its key demands.

https://www.euronews.com/2019/01/16/eu-to-london-change-your-brexit-red-lines

Quote

The Irish Taoiseach Leo Varadkar set out the possibility of a new Brexit deal if Boris Johnson was to alter Theresa May’s Brexit red lines — but warned that even if that happened, a deal is highly unlikely before 31 October.

Boris Johnson and Leo Varadkar speak about Brexit but fail to see eye to eye on backstop issue

Mrs May’s key red lines were that the UK would leave the single market, would leave the customs union, would end free movement and would bring an end to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in Britain.

Mr Varadkar said: “We ended up with the withdrawal agreement and the backstop because of all the red lines that were drawn up by the British Government.

“Now if we’re going back to square one and those red lines are being changed, then we’ve something to talk about.”

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/leo-varadkar-brexit-deal-boris-johnson-pm-red-lines-irish-border/

Just first page of googling 'Brexit Red Lines Deal'.

[bickster]

4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

 

 

find me links where they state something about removal of  " red lines"  and I'll be happy to agree  , but i didn't crop the quotes I used so i didn't get the impression red lines were in play

Can you honestly see us saying, we want access to the single market and we'll allow freedom of movement and the EU then going No, the WA is the WA

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said:

It's absolutely common sense Tony. 

You go to a car garage and say 'my budget is 50k' and they present you with options within your red lines. Whilst you refused to change your red lines, they won't sell you a better car. But if your red lines changed to 70k, they wouldn't just say 'Nah, that's it. No negotiations'. They'd come back to you with different offers.

Also, Peter posted something at the top of this page.

While in principle you might be right, there are more angles to it.

For example, the EU leaders might hope that Brexit does not happen at all. In which case, they said:

'here is a deal. It's not very good, but take it or leave it'

They might hope that it will scare UK to withdraw the article 50. So far, the hardline EU politics have made a good mess of UK parliament so if they are playing politics to destabilise London, they are doing a good job of it.

It might just be a massive game of chicken, but I wouldn't say it's common sense. Nothing makes sense in this weird game between London and Brussels. 

[StefanAVFC]

4 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

While in principle you might be right, there are more angles to it.

For example, the EU leaders might hope that Brexit does not happen at all. In which case, they said:

'here is a deal. It's not very good, but take it or leave it'

They might hope that it will scare UK to withdraw the article 50. So far, the hardline EU politics have made a good mess of UK parliament so if they are playing politics to destabilise London, they are doing a good job of it.

It might just be a massive game of chicken, but I wouldn't say it's common sense. Nothing makes sense in this weird game between London and Brussels. 

Verging on conspiracy theories here.

In deal making, if one side says we won't accept 'x, y z' then a deal can only be offered in the constraints of those demands.

If that side drops 'x' then a different deal can be made.

Edited September 6, 2019 by StefanAVFC

[Sam-AVFC]

Just now, Mic09 said:

They might hope that it will scare UK to withdraw the article 50. So far, the hardline EU politics have made a good mess of UK parliament so if they are playing politics to destabilise London, they are doing a good job of it.

Out of interest, do you attribute blame of anything to Boris?

With how transparent it is, it amazes me how many people buy into his deflections. The reality is there is blame to be shared around every political body that is involved...probably apart from the EU.

[Mic09]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Verging on conspiracy theories here.

In deal making, if one side says we won't accept 'x, y z' then a deal can only be offered in the constraints of those demands.

If that side drops 'x' then a different can be made.

I wouldn't go as far as conspiracy theories. If 27 member states will lose out on trade with the UK following Brexit, they will act to avoid for this happening.

Not being sarcastic here, but it is common sense that Brussels will play political games that benefit the European Union. 

[StefanAVFC]

You're not consistent in your logic.

The EU doesn't lose out by offering the UK a better deal. The UK, and the UK, only' is making the EU offer us a terrible deal due to our red lines.

If we allow FoM, or single market, then the impact on the EU is minimal.

[Mic09]

5 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Out of interest, do you attribute blame of anything to Boris?

With how transparent it is, it amazes me how many people buy into his deflections. The reality is there is blame to be shared around every political body that is involved...probably apart from the EU.

I blame a lot on Boris, but he is relatively new to this 3-4 year old party.

Why do you think I buy into his deflections or I support Boris in any way?

I'm sorry to pick you on when stating this, but it amazes me that once any blame is put on EU or Labour, it must mean you support the Tories. Why?

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, Mic09 said:

I blame a lot on Boris, but he is relatively new to this 3-4 year old party.
 

No he isn't.

He was the face of the Leave campaign. That stupid red bus. He wrote 2 articles before choosing which side to back.

He was a huge part of this years ago.

[bickster]

4 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

I'm sorry to pick you on when stating this, but it amazes me that once any blame is put on EU or Labour, it must mean you support the Tories. Why?

Because the Tories are the people that have encouraged you to think that way

[Mic09]

Just now, StefanAVFC said:

No he isn't.

He was the face of the Leave campaign. That stupid red bus. He wrote 2 articles before choosing which side to back.

He was a huge part of this years ago.

That's why I said relatively. May and Corbyn had bigger roles in how the last 3 years has shaped in the UK Parliament. 

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

Because the Tories are the people that have encouraged you to think that way

Why do you think that? How can you know who encouraged me to think in any way?

Edited September 6, 2019 by Mic09

[bickster]

1 minute ago, Mic09 said:

Why do you think that? How can you know who encouraged me to think in any way?

Because you are a product of your environment and I'm in the same environment experiencing the same bullshit but I'm able to see through it.

[Mic09]

4 minutes ago, bickster said:

Because you are a product of your environment and I'm in the same environment experiencing the same bullshit but I'm able to see through it.

How do you know what my environment is? We are not in the same environment. We have a different background, different beliefs, different friends, different opinions and prejudices. 

I'm really sorry bickster, but that sort of rhetoric of is very poor form and offensive if anything. Even though I said time and time again, I do not support Tories, you keep on going about being blinded by them at any point whenever I question any actions by EU or Labour.

I would much appreciate if you stopped telling me what my logic or thinking is based on, because that's pre-school level of debate. 

You are wrong, because I see through the lies. Right. 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Mic09

[bickster]

1 minute ago, Mic09 said:

How do you know what my environment is? We are not in the same environment. We have a different background, different beliefs, different friends, different opinions and prejudices. 

I'm really sorry bickster, but that sort of rhetoric of is very poor form and offensive if anything. Even though I said time and time again, I do not support Tories, you keep on going about being blinded by them at any point whenever I question any actions by EU or Labour.

I would much appreciate if you stopped telling me what my logic or thinking is based on, because that's pre-school level of debate. 

Do you have special newspapers and television channels no one else has? Do you have different politicians telling you different things to me?

Thought not

[StefanAVFC]

9 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

That's why I said relatively. May and Corbyn had bigger roles in how the last 3 years has shaped in the UK Parliament. 

Relatively new is just wrong, sorry. Hes been involved since the start.