The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[Mic09]

Just now, tonyh29 said:

Corbyn didn't table that vote so i'm not sure he "won " it

For once , Corbyn seems to have been well advised  ,  even if Boris dresses up as a chicken and walks around the commons making clucking noises I don't think Corbyn is going to fall into the trap that was put before him 

I do believe corbyn knows he won't win aGE  but I don't think that's his motive in this instance

Maybe - either way, I think that we are not cynical enough when it comes to Mr Corbyn. 

[hippo]

Just now, tonyh29 said:

Corbyn didn't table that vote so i'm not sure he "won " it

For once , Corbyn seems to have been well advised  ,  even if Boris dresses up as a chicken and walks around the commons making clucking noises I don't think Corbyn is going to fall into the trap that was put before him 

I do believe corbyn knows he won't win aGE  but I don't think that's his motive in this instance

??????????

Do you have to table a vote to win it ?  semantic in the extreme. 

[tonyh29]

1 minute ago, hippo said:

if no deal is off the table the Brexit party will rise in the polls - damaging Johnsons Tories - I think that what Corbyn is waiting for. It might not be advisable for BJ to call Corbyn a coward to much - as when Johnson declines the TV debate  it could come back and bite him in the arse.

Johnson won't decline a TV debate  , he thrives on those sorts of areas even with his stumbling  ... he won't convert anyone on VT but a lot of the public will lap him up

[hippo]

Just now, tonyh29 said:

Johnson won't decline a TV debate  , he thrives on those sorts of areas even with his stumbling  ... he won't convert anyone on VT but a lot of the public will lap him up

I think there is nothing more likely than Johnson declining a TV debate. If I were one of his advisers I would advise him to decline it - he will probably be ahead in the polls - but his ability to frequently look a fool would be a risk he wouldn't take IMO.

[Sam-AVFC]

5 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I do believe corbyn knows he won't win aGE  but I don't think that's his motive in this instance

Out of interest, would you expect a Conservative majority?

I'd be amazed if it happened as most people I know who are traditional Tory voters would have no interest in voting for them now, but I appreciate they've picked up new votes from various people feeling disenfranchised.

I expect a hung parliament like last time, but I would not expect it to be hung in Boris' favour.

[bickster]

4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Johnson won't decline a TV debate

He already has form and if his tenure so far is anything to go by, he'd be advised to

[Sam-AVFC]

6 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Maybe - either way, I think that we are not cynical enough when it comes to Mr Corbyn. 

Whatever you think of him...really?! I find this amazing coming from someone seemingly willing to defend all of Boris' completely transparent recent moves.

[bickster]

1 minute ago, Sam-AVFC said:

I expect a hung parliament like last time, but I would not expect it to be hung in Boris' favour.

Presumably you mean Tory + NF Corporation + DUP have the greater share of seats?

I think that is way too close to call at this stage

[Mic09]

Just now, Sam-AVFC said:

Whatever you think of him...really?! I find this amazing coming from someone seemingly willing to defend all of Boris' completely transparent recent moves.

At which point did I defend anything that Boris did?

Just a few points ago I said 'even he isn't that stupid'. 

Just because I have a go at Corbyn, does not mean I support anything Boris does. 

[Sam-AVFC]

Just now, bickster said:

Presumably you mean Tory + NF Corporation + DUP have the greater share of seats?

I think that is way too close to call at this stage

I mean that I'd expect it to be a Labour + LD + SNP + Green majority...whether they could form a government out of that is another issure entirely.

Completely agree that it's too close to call which is why I can't see there being a simple majority for any party.

[tonyh29]

1 minute ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Out of interest, would you expect a Conservative majority?

I'd be amazed if it happened as most people I know who are traditional Tory voters would have no interest in voting for them now, but I appreciate they've picked up new votes from various people feeling disenfranchised.

I expect a hung parliament like last time, but I would not expect it to be hung in Boris' favour.

I'd guess another hung parliament  ... just depends on if an Labour /SNP  /Lib alliance could eek a majority

the voting could possibly come down to how these non aggression pacts work in key seats  ...

My constituency came up the other day as we discussed Hammond  , from the little I've seenlocally  there is no desire for him if he stood as an independent  , but he could still split the Tory vote if he stood ..mainly as people will probably put an x by his his name from habit !! 

 

[hippo]

3 minutes ago, bickster said:

He already has form and if his tenure so far is anything to go by, he'd be advised to

Exactly - Corbyns a lightweight, I expected Johnson to hammer him the other day - I actually think that BJ dilutes his attack by always trying to be funny - the chlorinated chicken jibe made Johnson look a bit pathetic the other day. - Contrast that with the attack on Johnson by the guy in in the turban  - no jokes just straight to the point and Johnson just sat there and took it. 

[bickster]

10 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

Maybe - either way, I think that we are not cynical enough when it comes to Mr Corbyn. 

Is it possible to be more cynical of Corbyn than most of the posters in this topic, including many of those that have pointed out the errors in your argument. You aren't being told your opinion is nonsensical by any Corbynites. Not one person.

I certainly can't vote for a Labour Party lead by him but I can see why he doesn't want, in fact can't have, an election being called on Johnson's terms. There's business that needs to be done first.

[Sam-AVFC]

Just now, Mic09 said:

At which point did I defend anything that Boris did?

Just a few points ago I said 'even he isn't that stupid'. 

Just because I have a go at Corbyn, does not mean I support anything Boris does. 

Maybe I've read between the lines a bit, but by mocking Corbyn for not agreeing to Boris' GE vote I assumed that you don't think Boris is going to move the date under any circumstances. I disagree and think this is giving him way too much credit.

[hippo]

2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I'd guess another hung parliament  ... just depends on if an Labour /SNP  /Lib alliance could eek a majority

the voting could possibly come down to how these non aggression pacts work in key seats  ...

My constituency came up the other day as we discussed Hammond  , from the little I've seenlocally  there is no desire for him if he stood as an independent  , but he could still split the Tory vote if he stood ..mainly as people will probably put an x by his his name from habit !! 

 

I think the Tories will cake walk the next election - they misjudged labour last time, they made the mistake of believing  there own propaganda - don't see that happening again. 

[ml1dch]

43 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

@snowychap

Firstly, apologies for saying 'Everyone knows'. I might have got ahead of myself there, and that is not what I meant. Poor use of words. Please treat it as 'It is of my strong opinion'.

As for the part where you suggested it's about the timing, I take that on board. However, here are a couple of quotes from Corbyn from only a few days ago:
 

It's all about the timing. But if Corbyn asks for a General Election and claims they can win only 2 days ago (!) I think he understands the timing rather well. I honestly think he overplayed his hand and does not believe he can win it. 

Other than winning a vote on no deal which has worked in his favour and should reinforce his stance, what has changed in the 24 hour that has made him back track on his own words?
 

If the legislation last night has said something like "after an extension request to the EU Council has been granted let's have an election in early November" (probably with more flowery language, but I'm no Dominic Grieve) then I would bet a lot of money that most opposition MPs would have voted for it. 

[Mic09]

Just now, bickster said:

Is it possible to be more cynical of Corbyn than most of the posters in this topic, including many of those that have pointed out the errors in your argument. You aren't being told your opinion is nonsensical by any Corbynites. Not one person.

I certainly can't vote for a Labour Party lead by him but I can see why he doesn't want, in fact can't have, an election being called on Johnson's terms. There's business that needs to be done first.

Again, I gave ground and said that maybe @tonyh29 is right. I have moved away from that now and suggested we weren't cynical enough of Corbyn.

Out of interest, do you think that Corbyn will get a better chance at getting his election? Or is there a serious risk he overplayed his hand and he lost his chance? Under what circumstance can he get an election on his own terms?

[hippo]

Just now, Mic09 said:

Again, I gave ground and said that maybe @tonyh29 is right. I have moved away from that now and suggested we weren't cynical enough of Corbyn.

Out of interest, do you think that Corbyn will get a better chance at getting his election? Or is there a serious risk he overplayed his hand and he lost his chance? Under what circumstance can he get an election on his own terms?

There will be an election soon - I don't doubt it - getting no deal off the table was the object of Corbyns delay - He's already low in the polls, so its a calculated gamble - and from JC'S POV a good move. 

[ml1dch]

Just now, hippo said:

I think the Tories will cake walk the next election - they misjudged labour last time, they made the mistake of believing  there own propaganda - don't see that happening again. 

I think this depends a lot on how the battlelines are drawn. It seems safe to assume that Greens / CUKTIG / Lib Dems are up for a loose electoral coalition. I can’t see Labour thinking about joining that at the moment.

But – this election stands or falls on the Farage / Johnson relationship. If they throw their lot in together then I can’t see far beyond a majority for that unholy coalition. But on face value, it’ll involve a lot of backtracking from at least one side. Farage has said he’ll fully endorse Johnson if they go for full-on suicide Brexit. If he doesn’t, they’ll run against him. But if Johnson agreed to that, presumably he loses a load of wavering voters to the Lib Dems (while still hoping that the Leave brand is stronger than the Labour brand in the north and midlands).

And if the Johnson / NF pact happens, might it realign Labour’s thoughts on a loose relationship with the Lib Dems et al? Even without that, if Johnson loses ten in Scotland to the SNP, ten in the south of England to the Lib Dems – where are all these seats that he is winning to make up the difference that they failed to win in 2017?

The UKIP vote pretty much all moved Tory in 2017. There was no NF party. That suggests that there isn't much more of a vote share available to collect that they didn't get in 2017.

There are an awful lot of moving parts here.

[Mic09]

3 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Maybe I've read between the lines a bit, but by mocking Corbyn for not agreeing to Boris' GE vote I assumed that you don't think Boris is going to move the date under any circumstances. I disagree and think this is giving him way too much credit.

To clarify for the last time

I have mocked Corbyn because I think that he knows he will lose, and I think that is the reason (possibly one of many) that he asked the party to abstain from the vote. 

Whether Boris will move the date from mid October, I am not sure. I even said that if he did lie , it would be a normal day at the office.

I am no supporter of Boris, but I feel that Corbyn is no mastermind in this battle.