Demitri_C Posted July 9, 2017 Author Share Posted July 9, 2017 Vince cable said done interesting things about the eu and Corbyn today on the Andrew marr show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 10 hours ago, snowychap said: What is the mechanism for translating this apparent comparative advantage in 'innovation' to an actual economic advantage, such as a net increase in manufacturing exports? By employing a more mixed economy. We will need to, for example, pay attention to technical changes connections between savings and growth and the determinants of commodity prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 35 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said: By employing a more mixed economy. We will need to, for example, pay attention to technical changes connections between savings and growth and the determinants of commodity prices. I'm sorry, but I've read this post several times and I don't understand what it means, or what it suggests doing that we are not currently doing today. Could you give some concrete examples, or at least explain it a little more clearly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: I'm sorry, but I've read this post several times and I don't understand what it means, or what it suggests doing that we are not currently doing today. Could you give some concrete examples, or at least explain it a little more clearly? In part, it requires predicting future/identifying existing market opportunities and supporting them accordingly. It could be through direct access to investment finance, regulatory change, procurement or other. When we wanted to lower VAT for green deal products the European Court of Justice ruled against us. That impacted our high tech design industry who in the advent of technical changes to manufacturing, both in the supply and manufacturing process, we not able to invest in British made/designed products. Consumers were also impacted as no good standard was established. This not only stifled an innovative sector we have been leaders in (Aston Uni for example) but impacted the employment opportunities within that field. We also saw good wind companies being bought by foreign investors as they couldn't find enough capital or investment here....in part due to a nervousness from Government about competition law. Being outside the EU we could encourage growth in very many industries, particularly with how the supply chain of components works internationally and the advent of something like 3D printing. But it's not just industry. New fisheries policy could simultaneously lower domestic prices and increase exports. Conservation projects (which we would need to have to manage fish stocks) would improve academic and tourist opportunities. Imo we have a very warped way of looking at rural and coastal communities contribution to the wider economy.. I understand it's a bit of a 'utopia' and it's a bloody difficult challenge but I feel we do have some great resources that in the modern world, could benefit both our domestic market/society and embrace many of the changes going on in the burgeoning economies. For whatever reason, and I don't always think it's the EU, I don't feel we've done a good enough job at supporting our natural resources....or even identifying what they are! Edited July 9, 2017 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said: I understand it's a bit of a 'utopia' It's more than just a bit of a Utopia, though, isn't it? What you've said in this post appears to chime with the comments made by Dominic Cummings in his exchange with David Allen Green the other day in that making a success of Brexit is going to require so many more things to happen than merely escaping the shackles of the EU. As reported in the Jack of Kent blog (here), Cummings said: Quote What will determine that [long term judgement of Brexit as a good/bad idea) is whether we can reform Whitehall / science / education / real productivity etc. Brexit nec, obv not sufficient I hope I'm not wrong in putting that up as similar to your comments such as 'access to investment finance, regulatory change, procurement', &c. What all this seems to mean, though, is that the answer to my earlier question is that there may possibly be a route to the economy as a whole taking advantage of these potential new opportunities (as opposed merely to some companies/producers/innovators) in the future as long as we also do x, y and z. Edited July 9, 2017 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 I always thought that the likes of mackerel and herring were migratory fish. The reason other countries fish them here is so as not to fish them across their whole life cycle and quickly exhaust stocks. Any unilateral action in the name of our fishermen or our waters will lead to one of two things. Either, A: all other nations shrugging their shoulders, closing their fleets and asking if they can buy fish off us please (the great british brexit scenario), or, B: they might fish them outside our waters in a different part of their season thus potentially depleting stocks for everyone. Or, C: we have some sort of joint policy where all nations accept there is more demand than supply and perhaps we shouldn't be fishing mackerel to be turned in to fishmeal fertiliser to grow crops to feed to cows to get beef. It's just a dumb idea that cannot be dressed up as conservation savvy in any way. Nobody can possibly predict which it might be! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 19 hours ago, Risso said: Gutted I missed that, sounds right up my street. Aside from the politics, it's still a fantastic day out. The city centre was packed, with people enjoying the brass bands, and parade. Plenty of ale on the go too, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 I thought the BBC did that already?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) In other news.. http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/two-bury-council-officers-deliberately-13362889 Quote Two Bury council officers deliberately delayed investigating allegations against Labour politician ahead of election, independent inquiry concludes Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch about this "clearly" being just another way the daily rag is bringing labour down, it's posted by MNE - owned by Trinity Mirror who is a labour aligned group. Coincidentally Trinity Mirror is the UK's largest publishing house. The idea that the Tories "own or align with the majority" of papers that so many people on here keep banging on about is as true as Theresa May's follow through on the means testing of fuel allowance. Edited July 22, 2017 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 26 minutes ago, magnkarl said: In other news.. http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/two-bury-council-officers-deliberately-13362889 Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch about this "clearly" being just another way the daily rag is bringing labour down, it's posted by MNE - owned by Trinity Mirror who is a labour aligned group. Coincidentally Trinity Mirror is the UK's largest publishing house. The idea that the Tories "own or align with the majority" of papers that so many people on here keep banging on about is as true as Theresa May's follow through on the means testing of fuel allowance. You'll have to prove that one before you convince me I'm afraid. My perception is that the media on the whole including the BBC are pro establishment and pretty right wing. The Overton window is still alligned to support Neoliberalism and is quite right wing but this has changed slightly post election. I've never looked at it in terms of circulation or viewing figures but I'd wager the numbers would hugely favour pro establishment thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 40 minutes ago, magnkarl said: In other news.. http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/two-bury-council-officers-deliberately-13362889 Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch about this "clearly" being just another way the daily rag is bringing labour down, it's posted by MNE - owned by Trinity Mirror who is a labour aligned group. Coincidentally Trinity Mirror is the UK's largest publishing house. The idea that the Tories "own or align with the majority" of papers that so many people on here keep banging on about is as true as Theresa May's follow through on the means testing of fuel allowance. On the first point here, that story is shocking and the individuals concerned should be prosecuted if possible. I would be up in arms if a Tory had done the same, so let's not brush that one under the carpet, it's horrendous behaviour. On the second point, most Trinity Mirror properties are local papers that don't cover national politics. When people make that point about Tory-supporting media, they are obviously referring to papers with national circulations that offer extensive coverage of Westminster. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 22, 2017 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2017 43 minutes ago, magnkarl said: The idea that the Tories "own or align with the majority" of papers that so many people on here keep banging on about is as true as I think the "idea" is that both in terms of circulation/readership and of national titles, the majority is right wing/raving bonkers. The opposite would be true of on-line (non-newspaper) sites, I'd imagine. The TM titles are mostly local ones, which tend not to be driven by any kind of over-arching editorial line from the ownership, unlike the likes of the Mail, Telegraph, Sun, Express etc. The last election tended to show that the influence of these major right wing titles is less than it was, mind - perhaps because they've lost circulation, perhaps because they are clearly potty/OTT, perhaps because of the internets,...maybe all of that and more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 32 minutes ago, blandy said: I think the "idea" is that both in terms of circulation/readership and of national titles, the majority is right wing/raving bonkers. The opposite would be true of on-line (non-newspaper) sites, I'd imagine. The TM titles are mostly local ones, which tend not to be driven by any kind of over-arching editorial line from the ownership, unlike the likes of the Mail, Telegraph, Sun, Express etc. The last election tended to show that the influence of these major right wing titles is less than it was, mind - perhaps because they've lost circulation, perhaps because they are clearly potty/OTT, perhaps because of the internets,...maybe all of that and more. A good point, however I'd still say that Liverpool Echo, MEN, Daily Post (Wales) amongst others still hold a stronger place in their areas and towns than any of the big national papers. People buy national papers to read about national subjects, while local papers describe the situation in their local community. I'd say that a proper local paper writing about my local MP and issues that I can vote on is a hell of a lot more worth to me than any of the big national papers who comments on JC's tie or TM's skirt. Trinity Mirror owns close to 50% of the local print media in the UK - how that is not an advantage when we vote for local candidates in elections I don't know. We don't vote for PM's, we vote for parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 These will be the local papers that ran multiple front page ads for the tories in the lead up to the election? The notable one being: Which ran the half page ad with an article about food banks above it. The local papers here were against miners striking in the 30's, against the Jarrow march, against the 80's miners' strike, against any form of devolution and is constantly on the wrong (right) side of every debate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 28 minutes ago, magnkarl said: A good point, however I'd still say that Liverpool Echo, MEN, Daily Post (Wales) amongst others still hold a stronger place in their areas and towns than any of the big national papers. People buy national papers to read about national subjects, while local papers describe the situation in their local community. I'd say that a proper local paper writing about my local MP and issues that I can vote on is a hell of a lot more worth to me than any of the big national papers who comments on JC's tie or TM's skirt. Trinity Mirror owns close to 50% of the local print media in the UK - how that is not an advantage when we vote for local candidates in elections I don't know. We don't vote for PM's, we vote for parties. Most local papers contain less reporting of local politics than you might expect. It's precisely the lack of accountability and supervision from local media that allows corrupt councillors like those you highlighted in Bury to do their business. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) 47 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: These will be the local papers that ran multiple front page ads for the tories in the lead up to the election? The notable one being: Which ran the half page ad with an article about food banks above it. The local papers here were against miners striking in the 30's, against the Jarrow march, against the 80's miners' strike, against any form of devolution and is constantly on the wrong (right) side of every debate. A nice example of a Johnston Press (tory) local paper. I don't think you quite got my point. If anything you have just shown that local papers do promote party politics. Your local paper is owned by Johnston Press which is right leaning while the papers owned by Trinity Mirror will do the same to the left just with triple the readership, reach and titles that Johnston Press has under its wing. You could have put the daily mail down with an advertorial on brexit being good and it'd have the same point proven. Johnston Press is about to go bankrupt by the way, so there might be some light at the end of the tunnel for roughly 20% of the local papers in the UK. Edited July 22, 2017 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 22, 2017 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2017 24 minutes ago, magnkarl said: A nice example of a Johnston Press (tory) local paper. I don't think you quite got my point. If anything you have just shown that local papers do promote party politics. Your local paper is owned by Johnston Press which is right leaning while the papers owned by Trinity Mirror will do the same to the left just with triple the readership, reach and titles that Johnston Press has under its wing. You could have put the daily mail down with an advertorial on brexit being good and it'd have the same point proven. Johnston Press is about to go bankrupt by the way, so there might be some light at the end of the tunnel for roughly 20% of the local papers in the UK. It's my local paper, actually, not Chris's But it rather disproves your point - you say the paper, which is Johnstone Press owned (as is the national "i" newspaper) and is "right leaning". But neither the 'i' nor the Blackpool Gazette follow a right leaning editorial outlook. They are politically independent and in the case of the Gazette, follow local issues, as can be seen clearly, from the cover story pic Chris posted, where the paper itself is highlighting the state of Blackpool's reliance on food banks - as it would seeing as the place is a proper poverty stricken town. The Advert on the front page, paid for by the tories is just that - An Ad. Edit - I should ad that Blackpool was quite brexity, so in fairness the ad at least aligned with the town on that issue, if not politically, as Blackpool South is Labour. So the local paper, regardless of ownership focuses on local problems and issues, and while the owners take tory ads for their local papers as a whole, in this case, the editors of each follow, broadly, their own stories. They would have taken a Labour or anyone else's ad had the Labour Party wanted to pay for one. ps, I don't live in Blackpool, just near to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 22, 2017 Share Posted July 22, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, blandy said: It's my local paper, actually, not Chris's But it rather disproves your point - you say the paper, which is Johnstone Press owned (as is the national "i" newspaper) and is "right leaning". But neither the 'i' nor the Blackpool Gazette follow a right leaning editorial outlook. They are politically independent and in the case of the Gazette, follow local issues, as can be seen clearly, from the cover story pic Chris posted, where the paper itself is highlighting the state of Blackpool's reliance on food banks - as it would seeing as the place is a proper poverty stricken town. The Advert on the front page, paid for by the tories is just that - An Ad. Edit - I should ad that Blackpool was quite brexity, so in fairness the ad at least aligned with the town on that issue, if not politically, as Blackpool South is Labour. So the local paper, regardless of ownership focuses on local problems and issues, and while the owners take tory ads for their local papers as a whole, in this case, the editors of each follow, broadly, their own stories. They would have taken a Labour or anyone else's ad had the Labour Party wanted to pay for one. ps, I don't live in Blackpool, just near to it. The media and journalism professor that works with me would disagree, if you ever go to a Johnston Press or Trinity Mirror share holder's meeting you would see that it's pretty clear that they are told to allow pretty hefty left or right leaning news stories as well as ad content. Good on the Blackpool Gazette for reporting on important issues though - however I think this is more reported on because it's an actual local issue rather than a "stick it to the tories" kind of story. An example if you will, the local paper around my parts, Hants Chronicle, is owned and operated by Newsquest who is owned by Gannett, who also reported on the exact same case Southampton even though it's a group that openly supports the lib dems who put the policies that make people go to food banks into system with the tories. Their ads are all lib dem and tory though, so it's clear that labour aren't allowed to advertise in the paper. I think all editors of local print papers likes to think that they are independent - but if you look at the patterns of articles with for example MEN or Daily Post they are very pro labour. Those papers can't even be compared to the Blackpool Gazette as they are more regional than local so I'm hoping that your local paper has been spared of the political dictating that my local paper has. It is funny that when these papers change owners and you often find companies like Trinity trying to buy for example the Surrey Advertiser - probably the most conservative local title in the country. Safe to say the paper as a whole went down the drain because they were forced to change reporting and centralise. Centralisation for Johnston Press and Trinity Mirror means that stories are made up closer to HQ which leads to a more politicised content. I presume the Blackpool Gazette is getting content from the Yorkshire JP headquarters just like my local paper is getting content from Reading/Buckinghamshire. Edited July 22, 2017 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 22, 2017 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2017 2 hours ago, magnkarl said: A good point, however I'd still say that Liverpool Echo, MEN, Daily Post (Wales) amongst others still hold a stronger place in their areas and towns than any of the big national papers. People buy national papers to read about national subjects, while local papers describe the situation in their local community. I'd say that a proper local paper writing about my local MP and issues that I can vote on is a hell of a lot more worth to me than any of the big national papers who comments on JC's tie or TM's skirt. Trinity Mirror owns close to 50% of the local print media in the UK - how that is not an advantage when we vote for local candidates in elections I don't know. We don't vote for PM's, we vote for parties. The Echo is a local joke, people only buy it for the football. Journalism died at the Echo some long while ago long before it did at its sister publication, the Meaning Evil In political terms, it quite often slags off the local Labour Council and runs campaigns that few people pay much attention to. It's known around here as the Daily Manc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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