The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[magnkarl]

So the argument so far is: she was 16, let's forget about it. All kids grow up. Let 16 year olds have a vote because they in a situation like this can not be held accountable, but when it comes to voting they should be held accountable. 

Call it anti-pc, anti-whatever. My job is to judge policy decisions by a place of education that helps the atmosphere on campus. I don't care if you're a tory, labour, spaghetti monster, socialist worker's party or a UKIP member - I'm paid to care when someone crosses the line. Momentum have and keep crossing the line by using victim stereotypes as an excuse to be obnoxious on campus. It's hard to control because any sort of action taken against them will be labelled sexist, ageist, classist, racist and so on. 

An example is when the uni tries to bring in someone like Germaine Greer to hold a talk. There will literally be a demonstration that gets close to violent because someone who is trying to speak her mind is holding a lecture for the students that want to learn. Another example is inviting someone related to the Israel state (we get these quite a lot for our history department), there will be pandemonium from the same people every time.

[bickster]

2 hours ago, magnkarl said:

There is a very clear element to labour's current voting group who is extremely aggressive, anti free speech and loud.

2

These Men say Hi

[blandy]

10 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

So the argument so far is: she was 16, let's forget about it. All kids grow up. Let 16 year olds have a vote because they in a situation like this can not be held accountable, but when it comes to voting they should be held accountable. 

No, that's not it - when it comes to voting they should be able, via their vote to hold MPs accountable for the decisions they've taken that affect, I dunno, schools, Universities, colleges, the environment, the jobs market, their lives... They can get married, join the Army, are affected by decisions and are old enough to work full time, having completed the statutory education required. Involving them in democracy might help widen engagement and understanding.

Quote

...Momentum have and keep crossing the line by using victim stereotypes as an excuse to be obnoxious on campus. It's hard to control because any sort of action taken against them will be labelled sexist, ageist, classist, racist and so on. 

An example is when the uni tries to bring in someone like Germaine Greer to hold a talk. There will literally be a demonstration that gets close to violent because someone who is trying to speak her mind is holding a lecture for the students that want to learn. Another example is inviting someone related to the Israel state (we get these quite a lot for our history department), there will be pandemonium from the same people every time.

It seems to be a worrying trend that exposure to different viewpoints is sometimes pushed down the queue behind "safe spaces" and so on. Maybe it's always been like that  - "You can't say that", but there does seem to be a trend towards intolerance of different views, rather than kind of beating them via debate and discussion and argument.

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

40 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

So the argument so far is: she was 16, let's forget about it. All kids grow up. Let 16 year olds have a vote because they in a situation like this can not be held accountable, but when it comes to voting they should be held accountable. 

Ha, good point well made.
Though 16 or 60....sometimes ignorance never passes.

[chrisp65]

We can't have it both ways here, they currently can't vote but can pay tax, can get a full time job but can't sign a contract, can join the army but can't buy a knife, can get married but can't buy a jazz mag. 

The law is pretty stoopid, so there's no winnable argument to be had here.

Personally, I think they should have the vote. if people living in Spain can vote in my constituency and people who are clearly willfully ignorant can vote, then there's no good argument against a 16 year old voting. Other than the fear of youth that rises like a bad smell from the huddled bus trip masses of golf club brexit pensioners that still yearn for the days their parents fought in a war and survived on turnips and good manners and spitfires. 

 

 

[tonyh29]

7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

We can't have it both ways here, they currently can't vote but can pay tax, can get a full time job but can't sign a contract, can join the army but can't buy a knife, can get married but can't buy a jazz mag. 

The law is pretty stoopid, so there's no winnable argument to be had here.

Personally, I think they should have the vote. if people living in Spain can vote in my constituency and people who are clearly willfully ignorant can vote, then there's no good argument against a 16 year old voting. Other than the fear of youth that rises like a bad smell from the huddled bus trip masses of golf club brexit pensioners that still yearn for the days their parents fought in a war and survived on turnips and good manners and spitfires. 

 

 

You can get married at 16 but need parental consent 

 

you can join the army at 16 but also need parental consent

and I think you have to stay on at school in England now until 18 (part time at least )  ? 

 

not disagreeing with you in their right to vote , just the pedant in me can't help myself

[chrisp65]

Just now, tonyh29 said:

You can get married at 16 but need parental consent 

 

you can join the army at 16 but also need parental consent

and I think you have to stay on at school in England now until 18 (part time at least )  ? 

 

not disagreeing with you in their right to vote , just the pedant in me can't help myself

A true pedant would know Scottish law on marriage. You can get married in Scotland aged 16 without parental permission, and you don't have to live there or be Scottish.

You're a 2 out of 3 demi pedant.

On recruiting 16 year olds in to the army, I know they're not allowed to drive tanks n stuff, but they are still in the armed forces. Something no other member of NATO allows, or no other permanent member of the UN security council. In fact, across the world only 20 countries allow it in any form, we are in the same group as Iran, Zimbabwe and North Korea.

[tonyh29]

3 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

A true pedant would know Scottish law on marriage. You can get married in Scotland aged 16 without parental permission, and you don't have to live there or be Scottish.

You're a 2 out of 3 demi pedant.

On recruiting 16 year olds in to the army, I know they're not allowed to drive tanks n stuff, but they are still in the armed forces. Something no other member of NATO allows, or no other permanent member of the UN security council. In fact, across the world only 20 countries allow it in any form, we are in the same group as Iran, Zimbabwe and North Korea.

Only if you recognise Scotland as a legal entity and  whilst I've extended that courtesy to Transnistria , I refuse to acknowledge Scotland 

[snowychap]

31 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

You're a 2 out of 3 demi pedant.

To be a demi-pedant wouldn't he have to have got one out of two wrong?

[chrisp65]

Just now, snowychap said:

To be a demi-pedant wouldn't he have to have got one out of two wrong?

I genuinely put that in there for the real pedants to enjoy.

I checked that demi was half and off I went.

 

[snowychap]

10 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

the rest of the coterie

Coterie du blandy - is that a red or a white?

[tonyh29]

Just now, chrisp65 said:

I genuinely put that in there for the real pedants to enjoy.

I checked that demi was half and off I went.

 

I thought you were trying too hard and chose to ignore it

[chrisp65]

Just now, tonyh29 said:

I thought you were trying too hard and chose to ignore it

So you're ignoring me and Scotland?

Well that's you choice, but be warned, fussy don't get a feel up on the late bus home.

[bickster]

Let's ban the over 75s from voting then, mostly gags, prevented from driving and even dads army wouldnt have them.

I obviously don't believe this but it seems to be the logical conclusion of the argument presented here 

[snowychap]

50 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

fussy don't get a feel up on the late bus home

That sounds like a GLC 'b' side.

[chrisp65]

15 minutes ago, snowychap said:

That sounds like a GLC 'b' side.

top band

 

[PompeyVillan]

For what it's worth I think Momentum scare the living hell out of the right wing, mainstream establishment. 

They know there's no way they could mobilise such a competent, innovative and committed group of volunteers, in such vast numbers. 

They're scared that they're real, so they attack anything they can, any gap they can see, however small. 

The one implicit in this thread are that they're extreme and naïve. An accusation leveled at many young voters who go left. Tree huggers, vegan loonies. Unpatriotic and hate the UK. Don't know they're born and should listen to their elders who know how what the left really are. Communists!

 

[darrenm]

1 hour ago, PompeyVillan said:

For what it's worth I think Momentum scare the living hell out of the right wing, mainstream establishment. 

They know there's no way they could mobilise such a competent, innovative and committed group of volunteers, in such vast numbers. 

They're scared that they're real, so they attack anything they can, any gap they can see, however small. 

The one implicit in this thread are that they're extreme and naïve. An accusation leveled at many young voters who go left. Tree huggers, vegan loonies. Unpatriotic and hate the UK. Don't know they're born and should listen to their elders who know how what the left really are. Communists!

 

I'm a 40 year old fairly affluent male living in a safe Tory constituency who just wants a bit of social equality and I'm very much in favour of Momentum as a force for positive change. They should be scared.

[tonyh29]

21 minutes ago, darrenm said:

I'm a 40 year old fairly affluent male living in a safe Tory constituency who just wants a bit of social equality and I'm very much in favour of Momentum as a force for positive change. They should be scared.

They may need to work on their image a bit as I don't see momentum as a force for positive change , and I'm sure I'm not alone in that view ?

I'm sure they aren't all as mad bad and dangerous as the media would portray , but this cult they have put around Corbyn and this revisionism of him in a bid to get him elected is almost like fan boys at a Star Wars convention ... just nobody at a Star Wars convention ever called Darth Vadar scum and smashed the windows on the Death Star ....the longer momentum and Corbyn plays out the more I keep thing I'm watching the show G.B.H playing out in real life ( though I must confess it was about 25 years ago I watched that so maybe im making life imitate art when it really doesn't )

there may well be a place and a desire for some of Corbyns policies , I just don't think there is a place for Corbyn ... or momentum 

[snowychap]

7 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

They may need to work on their image a bit as I don't see momentum as a force for positive change , and I'm sure I'm not alone in that view ?

I'm sure they aren't all as mad bad and dangerous as the media would portray , but this cult they have put around Corbyn and this revisionism of him in a bid to get him elected is almost like fan boys at a Star Wars convention ... just nobody at a Star Wars convention ever called Darth Vadar scum and smashed the windows on the Death Star ....the longer momentum and Corbyn plays out the more I keep thing I'm watching the show G.B.H playing out in real life ( though I must confess it was about 25 years ago I watched that so maybe im making life imitate art when it really doesn't )

there may well be a place and a desire for some of Corbyns policies , I just don't think there is a place for Corbyn ... or momentum 

That doesn't really make a great deal of sense.