The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[bickster]

4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

fixed :)

Actually, a quick scan down the list of NUS Presidents suggests that to be nonsense 

[Demitri_C]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

To be honest, I assume that it was probably said in jest, and if seen in the context of the conversation around it, it might seem less offensive. It was also five years ago, when she presumably was neither a student nor possibly even that interested in politics. 

I get that it looks bad now, shorn of context, and it wasn't the smartest thing to say whatever the context, but it doesn't make her a 'vile human being'. 

I didnt realise it was 5 years ago. Thought this was fairly recent my bad. Still think the comments are stupid she wasnt young at the time

But i bet if a conservative had said it people would be up in arm

Edited July 4, 2017 by Demitri_C

[bickster]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

I didnt realise it was 5 years ago. Thought this was fairly recent my bad. Still think the comments are stupid she wasnt young at the time

But i bet if a conservative had said it people would be up in arm

She was 16 at the start of Vith form. I doubt many Tories exist at that age and the ones that do are usually to the right of Ghengis Khan. Young Conservatives (their former Youth Wing) had such a bad reputation for saying outrageously bonkers things they actually got disbanded at least once if not twice

[MakemineVanilla]

5 hours ago, blandy said:

What an absolute crock.

Sadly, as a white male who has dedicated his life to enforcing white male privilege and hegemony across the globe, by facilitating the delivery of weapons of mass destruction, you particularly don't get a voice.   

Edited July 4, 2017 by MakemineVanilla

[darrenm]

1 hour ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Sadly, as a white male who has dedicated his life to enforcing white male privilege and hegemony across the globe, by facilitating the delivery of weapons of mass destruction, you particularly don't get a voice.   

Again what an absolute crock.

[chrisp65]

If she said something that should be sanctioned but staff at the Uni knowingly let it go, when they would have taken action against others, then they (the university) are equally to blame, if not more so, given their greater authority and experience.

Though I have to say, I suspect what we have here is a light drizzle in a hot drink receptacle.

 

[PompeyVillan]

2 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Sadly, as a white male who has dedicated his life to enforcing white male privilege and hegemony across the globe, by facilitating the delivery of weapons of mass destruction, you particularly don't get a voice.   

I'm genuinely not sure if you're being satirical. 

[tom_avfc]

4 hours ago, bickster said:

She was 16 at the start of Vith form. I doubt many Tories exist at that age and the ones that do are usually to the right of Ghengis Khan. Young Conservatives (their former Youth Wing) had such a bad reputation for saying outrageously bonkers things they actually got disbanded at least once if not twice

This is absolute rubbish to be fair. I know it's the done thing to criticise tories and it's got likes from the obvious people on the forum but to accuse any youngster with Tory leanings of being extreme right is nothing short of ludicrous. 

I sometimes hate the black and whiteness of politics. Let's not allow anybody to support the conservatives without labelling them bat shit crazy! 

As an aside I voted Tory aged 18 but couldn't vote for the Tory party under may at the last election. Sorry for being "to the right of Genghis Khan". I guess it would have been more acceptable to be supportive of the oppression of white people than to vote conservative. I'll consider myself told!! 

[Seat68]

If everything I said at 16 was brought up now I suspect I would be in the tower. Then it was the royals and Thatchers government. These days its the size of Yorkie bars and the signing of Terry. 

[blandy]

11 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Sadly, as a white male who has dedicated his life to enforcing white male privilege and hegemony across the globe, by facilitating the delivery of weapons of mass destruction, you particularly don't get a voice.   

That post suggests one or four teensy weensy misapprehensions. Still, 'tis but a minor quibble with an otherwise fully face-palm post.

[Risso]

1 minute ago, blandy said:

That post suggests one or four teensy weensy misapprehensions. Still, 'tis but a minor quibble with an otherwise fully face-palm post.

C'mon, you ARE a white male, that bit's correct!

[blandy]

3 minutes ago, Risso said:

C'mon, you ARE a white male, that bit's correct!

Stop oppressing me 

[bickster]

9 hours ago, tom_avfc said:

This is absolute rubbish to be fair. I know it's the done thing to criticise tories and it's got likes from the obvious people on the forum but to accuse any youngster with Tory leanings of being extreme right is nothing short of ludicrous. 

I sometimes hate the black and whiteness of politics. Let's not allow anybody to support the conservatives without labelling them bat shit crazy! 

As an aside I voted Tory aged 18 but couldn't vote for the Tory party under may at the last election. Sorry for being "to the right of Genghis Khan". I guess it would have been more acceptable to be supportive of the oppression of white people than to vote conservative. I'll consider myself told!! 

Didn't do what you accuse me of in paragraph 1

Look up the Federation of Conservative Students (once described as Thatchers Militant Tendancy) bat shit crazy much like the Young Conservatives. That's 2 youth wings the Tory Party has had to close down in my remembrance. Bat shit crazy and they were the official youth wings of the party!

Didnt accuse you of personally of anything, you really shouldn't think a generalisation is about you, why would you unless you had some sort of guilt complex about it?

[MakemineVanilla]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

That post suggests one or four teensy weensy misapprehensions. Still, 'tis but a minor quibble with an otherwise fully face-palm post.

Apologies if I misunderstood your career path - I thought you worked for some branch of the military industrial-complex. Sorry about that.

Even if it had been true it was not a condemnation, only an indication that it would put you in a class of people many on the left would disapprove of.

Indeed I have done work within that industry myself.

I think I was rather piqued by your knee-jerk dismissive referral to my argument as shit, which was not exactly considered and hardly polite.

I think it would have been better if you, or one of your pals, had denied the existence of a double-standard when it comes to the public condemnation of bigoted statements from different groups.

(I read an article in the Independent yesterday where Ruth Davidson's objectification of a woman in a Tweet was said to be perfectly okay, because she is a lesbian (an oppressed group), where a heterosexual male politician doing the same would be a resigning matter.)

Further to my 'crock of shit': A critique of Nietzsche's claim that Judeo-Christian morality is a slave morality might have been interesting.

Then maybe you could have gone on to prove that the Left are never to be heard to attack 'evil' Tories or rich people in general, from what they assume is their unassailable monopoly of the moral high-ground, and don't tend to divide society accordingly.

Please accept my sincere apologies. 

[tom_avfc]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

Didn't do what you accuse me of in paragraph 1

Look up the Federation of Conservative Students (once described as Thatchers Militant Tendancy) bat shit crazy much like the Young Conservatives. That's 2 youth wings the Tory Party has had to close down in my remembrance. Bat shit crazy and they were the official youth wings of the party!

Didnt accuse you of personally of anything, you really shouldn't think a generalisation is about you, why would you unless you had some sort of guilt complex about it?

This is fair enough but surely that's just taking the extreme and there's comparable societies in any political party. I suppose it depends if by Tories in your first post you were referring to members of said societies or anybody who voted Tory at a young age.

I actually think there's a large number of younger people who would vote for a more central leaning Conservative party but not a particularly right wing one (hence the mass turn off of May's government when compared to the Cameron government).

I think I've probably just misread what you were saying to be fair so sorry for that!

[bickster]

1 hour ago, tom_avfc said:

This is fair enough but surely that's just taking the extreme and there's comparable societies in any political party. I suppose it depends if by Tories in your first post you were referring to members of said societies or anybody who voted Tory at a young age.

I actually think there's a large number of younger people who would vote for a more central leaning Conservative party but not a particularly right wing one (hence the mass turn off of May's government when compared to the Cameron government).

I think I've probably just misread what you were saying to be fair so sorry for that!

People who vote Tory are just that, people who vote Tory. These people are and were actual members of the party.

In current Labour terms... Momentum. Fairly nutty but they'll grow up one day and learn to construct a solid reasoned argument

[blandy]

6 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Apologies if I misunderstood your career path - I thought you worked for some branch of the military industrial-complex. Sorry about that.

Even if it had been true it was not a condemnation, only an indication that it would put you in a class of people many on the left would disapprove of.

Indeed I have done work within that industry myself.

I think I was rather piqued by your knee-jerk dismissive referral to my argument as shit, which was not exactly considered and hardly polite.

I think it would have been better if you, or one of your pals, had denied the existence of a double-standard when it comes to the public condemnation of bigoted statements from different groups.

(I read an article in the Independent yesterday where Ruth Davidson's objectification of a woman in a Tweet was said to be perfectly okay, because she is a lesbian (an oppressed group), where a heterosexual male politician doing the same would be a resigning matter.)

Further to my 'crock of shit': A critique of Nietzsche's claim that Judeo-Christian morality is a slave morality might have been interesting.

Then maybe you could have gone on to prove that the Left are never to be heard to attack 'evil' Tories or rich people in general, from what they assume is their unassailable monopoly of the moral high-ground, and don't tend to divide society accordingly.

Please accept my sincere apologies. 

I was initially minded to write why your "argument" was such a massive crock, but then I thought "why bother typing a detailed response to something which is both (in appearance at least) an unthinking, innaccurate sort of repetition of a distorted argument and also reduced to absurdity -  it will be just a case of finding the individual who belongs to the most victim groups and then allowing them to decide everything because they will be the only one who will be allowed a voice." - so I didn't bother putting the effort in, seeing as you hadn't.

If you'd like to really explain something, using your own thoughts and judgement and experiences, and not to assume you know what I do, have done or believe, then I'd be more minded to consider it in a different light. Until then I'll stick with my view that a couple of your posts (previous to the one quoted here) are indeed a massive crock, in my view...

sorry 

[ml1dch]

8 hours ago, blandy said:

If you'd like to really explain something, using your own thoughts and judgement and experiences, and not to assume you know what I do, have done or believe, then I'd be more minded to consider it in a different light. Until then I'll stick with my view that a couple of your posts (previous to the one quoted here) are indeed a massive crock, in my view...

There are many parallels with Joey Barton's contribution to online shoutyness..

Repeat a bit of an article you once read (but didn't really understand), copy-and-paste the bit of another article which you did understand but only because it confirmed all your existing prejudices, bang in Nietzche, as his name always crops up in this sort of thing and you've got a cut-and-shut internet post ready to drop into any discussion.

[MakemineVanilla]

11 hours ago, ml1dch said:

There are many parallels with Joey Barton's contribution to online shoutyness..

Repeat a bit of an article you once read (but didn't really understand), copy-and-paste the bit of another article which you did understand but only because it confirmed all your existing prejudices, bang in Nietzche, as his name always crops up in this sort of thing and you've got a cut-and-shut internet post ready to drop into any discussion.

That may be the case where it applies but those who offer such critiques on the Internet are never in a position to know the extent of someone's knowledge on a given subject.

But it is not about actual depth of knowledge, it is really about where people are in the dominance hierarchy and the mark of the wannabe alpha is to always show absolute moral certainty, even and especially when, they are totally ignorant on a subject.

A guaranteed way of asserting one's alpha status in the case of statements which might be true but might not yield to easy analysis is to dismiss them as bollocks, shit, a load of crap or a crock.

You can always identify the alpha in any group of males because he will decide what opinions are allowed and how they are expressed (see above) and anything the alpha doesn't approve of is dismissed with a bark of 'bollocks', which gives the signal to the rest of the coterie that someone has usurped their status and has been put back into line.

Referring to the usurper with reference to some contemptible excluded figure (Joey Barton, say) just reinforces the understanding that the dominance hierarchy exists and there are consequences for those who transgress its rules and conventions.

And, just to comply with the editorial demands of the alpha in question: that has been my personal experience for all of my working-class life.

[snowychap]

It's like an irony cake.