Xann Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 They'd need to shift the fighting somewhere wetter to best utilise the anti-corrosion warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 bloody hell there's some panic spreading around the other candidates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 1200 jez voters barred from voting. Including mark steel. Joke. There will be uproar now if jez doesn't win. What the **** has happened to the labour party? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted August 12, 2015 Moderator Share Posted August 12, 2015 It's almost as if two parties with the same masters would do absolutely anything to avoid a democratic process which might interfere with the aims of those masters. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 bloody hell there's some panic spreading around the other candidates As revolting as Blair is, it's hard to dispute his analysis that Corbyn would lead Labour to glorious destruction. If / when he's elected I think the party will split within two years, a hard left union based and Corbyn led rump wedded to Marxism vs the rest, who will probably merge with the Lib Dems. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted August 13, 2015 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2015 it's interesting to note that the media keep telling us that us that Corbyn will be a disaster, that no-one will vote for him and that he'll tear the Labour party apart and yet his popularity continues to rise with the electorate and more and more voices within the Labour Party are adding their support to his campaign. The thing I liked about him from the off was that he was presenting the British people with a different way to do things, and as a result I felt that he might help to at least swing the balance of British politics somewhere towards the centre. The fascinating thing is that this 'different way' has been so well received that it's not inconceivable that he could win an election - and this despite the support of no-one in the mainstream media. The way things are going, if they don't find something to slander him with soon, he'll have to have an accident. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 You're right there Scott. I don't think the meeja as a whole know how to deal with him. They're used to polished smarmy career politicians like Blair, Cameron, Kendall etc. They've not had a serious principled big hitter for 30 years. He's certainly a threat to the usual order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 it's interesting to note that the media keep telling us that us that Corbyn will be a disaster, that no-one will vote for him and that he'll tear the Labour party apart and yet his popularity continues to rise with the electorate and more and more voices within the Labour Party are adding their support to his campaign. The thing I liked about him from the off was that he was presenting the British people with a different way to do things, and as a result I felt that he might help to at least swing the balance of British politics somewhere towards the centre. The fascinating thing is that this 'different way' has been so well received that it's not inconceivable that he could win an election - and this despite the support of no-one in the mainstream media. The way things are going, if they don't find something to slander him with soon, he'll have to have an accident. Is his popularity rising with the electorate? Or just the Labour party? Corbyn in opposition would be interesting - at least we could open up the discourse a bit, but conceivably he can't win an election, and that means 10 more years of the Tories. Could Cooper or Burnham win in 2020? Maybe, but they haven't shown much to suggest it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 it's interesting to note that the media keep telling us that us that Corbyn will be a disaster, that no-one will vote for him and that he'll tear the Labour party apart and yet his popularity continues to rise with the electorate and more and more voices within the Labour Party are adding their support to his campaign. The thing I liked about him from the off was that he was presenting the British people with a different way to do things, and as a result I felt that he might help to at least swing the balance of British politics somewhere towards the centre. The fascinating thing is that this 'different way' has been so well received that it's not inconceivable that he could win an election - and this despite the support of no-one in the mainstream media. The way things are going, if they don't find something to slander him with soon, he'll have to have an accident. Is his popularity rising with the electorate? Or just the Labour party? I think that's the main point right there. I haven't seen any evidence of the former and while he is undoubtedly getting support from the Labour movement, I'm not sure the PLP (who actually want to get elected) are quite so keen. As others have said, he's definitely going to make things more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 He's popular on twitter, which means he's doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Excerpts from Cooper's speech seem to be concentrating on bashing Corbyn and his 'old solutions to old problems'.Did she go on to elucidate what she believes these new 21st century problems are, let alone what her solutions to these may be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Surely a left-wing candidate is more likely to win back their seats in Scotland and therefore they are more likely to win an election. I think it's a mistake to think they lost because they weren't centre-ground, it's because they were trying to seem progressive but in a rather wooly fashion that had no economic credibility and no leader who could enthuse people. I'm not left-wing but I'd be interesting to see what a genuine left-wing candidate would campaign for and if he could give a genuinely sound financial plan behind it, then I'd consider voting that way. I'd really like there to be a genuine alternative in our politics. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Surely a left-wing candidate is more likely to win back their seats in Scotland and therefore they are more likely to win an election. SNP are currently polling at about 60-62% I think. Labour's left wing credentials in Scotland have been usurped by them and the added ingredient of Nationslism seems to have sealed the deal with the Scottish electorate. I would suggest this is a seismic political shift north of the wall and that won't be reversed this side of independence - whenever that may come. Labour needs to be talking to the working classes in England and Wales, people they gave up on some time ago. ...I'd be interesting to see what a genuine left-wing candidate would campaign for and if he could give a genuinely sound financial plan behind it.... From what I've read Corbyn seems to be a believer in the magic money tree school of economics, i.e. Further massive QE to spend on capital projects and the raising public sector wages. Sounds great if you're Russell Brand, but if it were so simple how come no one anywhere is doing it?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 (edited) Surely a left-wing candidate is more likely to win back their seats in Scotland and therefore they are more likely to win an election. I think it's a mistake to think they lost because they weren't centre-ground, it's because they were trying to seem progressive but in a rather wooly fashion that had no economic credibility and no leader who could enthuse people. I'm not left-wing but I'd be interesting to see what a genuine left-wing candidate would campaign for and if he could give a genuinely sound financial plan behind it, then I'd consider voting that way. I'd really like there to be a genuine alternative in our politics. I agree that they didn't lose in 2015 because they were too left wing, it was much more about a presentation of credibility, coherence and competence. I'm not sure that Corbyn helps them in that respect, though - perhaps in terms of coherence and personal (if not professional) credibility - but in addition to that he really is too left wing for most. Yes, they might win a few more votes on Scotland, but they're pretty bloody happy with the SNP up there right now. My sense is that Corbyn will win, but won't last til 2020. One thing it won;t be is boring though, which it will be with the other 3. My innate sense of mischief kinda fancies it in a **** the consequences kind of way, but maybe I'd regret that (not that I have a vote!) Edited August 13, 2015 by PatrickCousens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 They are sayng that a lot of labour will divert to lib dem. That would be interesting. Greens or Lib Dems should be trying to take advantage on labours turmoil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Surely a left-wing candidate is more likely to win back their seats in Scotland and therefore they are more likely to win an election. I think it's a mistake to think they lost because they weren't centre-ground, it's because they were trying to seem progressive but in a rather wooly fashion that had no economic credibility and no leader who could enthuse people. I'm not left-wing but I'd be interesting to see what a genuine left-wing candidate would campaign for and if he could give a genuinely sound financial plan behind it, then I'd consider voting that way. I'd really like there to be a genuine alternative in our politics. I agree that they didn't lose in 2015 because they were too left wing, it was much more about a presentation of credibility, coherence and competence. I'm not sure that Corbyn helps them in that respect, though - perhaps in terms of coherence and personal (if not professional) credibility - but in addition to that he really is too left wing for most. Yes, they might win a few more votes on Scotland, but they're pretty bloody happy with the SNP up there right now. My sense is that Corbyn will win, but won't last til 2020. One thing it won;t be is boring though, which it will be with the other 3. My innate sense of mischief kinda fancies it in a **** the consequences kind of way, but maybe I'd regret that (not that I have a vote!) For me the issue is - I wouldn't trust new labour under it's current position as being significantly better than the tories, they might be a wee bit less shit, but not be any lengths that would make substantive improvements to people's lives - ergo the whole "but five more years of the tories" is fairly inconsequential from my perspective at least. They'll still pay lip service to mumbling about saving the NHS before unleashing a whole load of PFIs that'll **** it all up anyway. They'll not make any proper efforts to eliminate tax evasion and clamp down on tax avoidance, they won't re-nationalise industries that are profitable to a select few who happen to be their mates or at least who have their ear via all the corporate lobbying - ergo cost of living will still be higher. they won't fight back against public sector pay freezes and job losses, they won't undo some of the shameless shit like giving tax breaks to the richly dead, whilst enforcing the cuts to budgets that force local councils to withdraw grants for child care, nursing home care, charitable groups etc, or withdraw funding for community based services like libraries or parks, they won't fight back against the efforts to destroy workers rights: it'll be more agency employment, less secure work-forces, more enforced volunteering, be it for volunteers to take over the running of say libraries, or forcing those on welfare do to 30 hours a week for 6 months ( as a friend of mine is doing ) to ensure he get's some benefit - which of course is less than the minimum wage. If you force someone to work that regularly, they ought to be paid basic wages for it. Instead, more free labour, freeing up spare cash to give back to those much maligned very wealthy people who need a bit of help with their second homes. Problem for new labour is even if they now promise to do any of that, I just simply won't believe them. Experience tells me different, they are too close to voices in big media, and the lobbying groups housed around parliament for me to trust they would have any effective backbone. Corbyn, however is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Who will be in Corbyn's shadow cabinet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Who will be in Corbyn's shadow cabinet? Jupitus? well, whoever it is, I wonder if the people that nominated them really meant it, or did it for some perverse laugh to look like they would consider a socialist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Condimentalist Posted August 13, 2015 Share Posted August 13, 2015 Surely a left-wing candidate is more likely to win back their seats in Scotland and therefore they are more likely to win an election. I think it's a mistake to think they lost because they weren't centre-ground, it's because they were trying to seem progressive but in a rather wooly fashion that had no economic credibility and no leader who could enthuse people. I'm not left-wing but I'd be interesting to see what a genuine left-wing candidate would campaign for and if he could give a genuinely sound financial plan behind it, then I'd consider voting that way. I'd really like there to be a genuine alternative in our politics. I agree that they didn't lose in 2015 because they were too left wing, it was much more about a presentation of credibility, coherence and competence. I'm not sure that Corbyn helps them in that respect, though - perhaps in terms of coherence and personal (if not professional) credibility - but in addition to that he really is too left wing for most. Yes, they might win a few more votes on Scotland, but they're pretty bloody happy with the SNP up there right now. My sense is that Corbyn will win, but won't last til 2020. One thing it won;t be is boring though, which it will be with the other 3. My innate sense of mischief kinda fancies it in a **** the consequences kind of way, but maybe I'd regret that (not that I have a vote!) For me the issue is - I wouldn't trust new labour under it's current position as being significantly better than the tories, they might be a wee bit less shit, but not be any lengths that would make substantive improvements to people's lives - ergo the whole "but five more years of the tories" is fairly inconsequential from my perspective at least. They'll still pay lip service to mumbling about saving the NHS before unleashing a whole load of PFIs that'll **** it all up anyway. They'll not make any proper efforts to eliminate tax evasion and clamp down on tax avoidance, they won't re-nationalise industries that are profitable to a select few who happen to be their mates or at least who have their ear via all the corporate lobbying - ergo cost of living will still be higher. they won't fight back against public sector pay freezes and job losses, they won't undo some of the shameless shit like giving tax breaks to the richly dead, whilst enforcing the cuts to budgets that force local councils to withdraw grants for child care, nursing home care, charitable groups etc, or withdraw funding for community based services like libraries or parks, they won't fight back against the efforts to destroy workers rights: it'll be more agency employment, less secure work-forces, more enforced volunteering, be it for volunteers to take over the running of say libraries, or forcing those on welfare do to 30 hours a week for 6 months ( as a friend of mine is doing ) to ensure he get's some benefit - which of course is less than the minimum wage. If you force someone to work that regularly, they ought to be paid basic wages for it. Instead, more free labour, freeing up spare cash to give back to those much maligned very wealthy people who need a bit of help with their second homes. Problem for new labour is even if they now promise to do any of that, I just simply won't believe them. Experience tells me different, they are too close to voices in big media, and the lobbying groups housed around parliament for me to trust they would have any effective backbone. Corbyn, however is different. A fair post, Rodders. I'm just trying my damnedest to envisage a scenario that doesn't see George Osborne in Number 10. When Boris is your best hope you know somethings gone wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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