The Chairman Mao resembling, Monarchy hating, threat to Britain, Labour Party thread

[Chindie]

15 minutes ago, blandy said:

Perhaps it is. I mean that Labour is currently effectively purging itself, bit by bit, of people who don't rate Corbyn - well that's up to them. If they want a Corbyn party, fine. Democracy innit. And I'm sure some of the ones who don't rate or agree with Corbyn will leave of their own volition, too - better jump than pushed, maybe. Whatever.

We could end up with Labour imploding under Corbyn and ther tories imploding under May (or whichever throbber follows her) and that would be a double bonus.

Though personally I think it would be nice to have a party that wasn't living in the 1970s or earlier to protect and stand up for....

oh, whatever...meh. The bells are winning.

Just so someone in the home counties can win at bingo, I'm not Corbyn's biggest fan either. He's not got a hope in hell's chance of winning an election and being PM, and I don't think he'd be a very good one either given the chance.

Is Labour purging itself? I've not kept up with Labour's internal politics, I would struggle to care in all honesty, but from what I've seen there not been much actually done to get rid of 'malcontents' in their ranks. Perhaps I've missed the party getting it's Stalin hat on and starting the pograms, but all I've seen is a lot of talk of hostility between factions of the party, some of which is nasty. And Corbyn has handled his opposition badly in a number of cases. But there's not seemingly been much actual effort to purge the party (the only other two that come to mind are both Brexit focused).

I don't think Labour evolving towards the left again is necessarily bad. We've had a long period of 2 parties with a Rizla between them. I don't think the current leadership is getting them elected but I could see someone else with better image and media savvy nature running in the same basis and winning support. If they evolved it in a more modern interpretation of the left I could see them doing very well.

[tonyh29]

25 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Just so someone in the home counties can win at bingo, I'm not Corbyn's biggest fan either

 

 

[tonyh29]

33 minutes ago, Chindie said:

 If they evolved it in a more modern interpretation of the left I could see them doing very well.

 

 someone else with better image and media savvy nature 

Wasn't that what Ed tried   .. minus the bit in bold

 

Outside of VT I don't see a great deal of desire to move left  .. I think Centre ground is about as far left as the UK is prepared to go

 

 

 

 

[bickster]

3 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

 

 

St Jezza at Bongo's was totally cringeworthy

[HanoiVillan]

56 minutes ago, blandy said:

I posted the (abbreviated) text of the two motions of NC

 "Instead of fighting for a Labour government, our MP is continually using the media to criticise the man we all want to be Prime Minister." and "continuously criticising our leader when she should be working towards a general election"
She's criticised him on Brexit and anti-semitism - not exactly a unique position she finds herself in. SHe's also completely right, as it happens, but that's irrelevant. Sad that Labour can't stomach remainy non racists any more.

She literally does both of those things, lots of the time. She was happy to be mentioned in the papers on Sunday as flaunting the possibility of leaving the party. 

I'm not trying to defend every single comment that every person who wants rid of her has ever made, because I'm sure there's a whopper or two to find. But on the substance of the complaint, it's hard to disagree. It's not a surprise that party members don't feel well-represented by someone who criticises the party constantly (it's also the same with Boles of course. Even if I feel more sympathetic to him relative to his opponents, it's still understandable why they want rid of him). 

If other Labour members don't like it, they can vote against the motion in the VONC, and if they lose, they can leave the party and she can stand as an independent or a New Party candidate or whatever. 

Edited February 8, 2019 by HanoiVillan

[snowychap]

2 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

If other Labour members don't like it, they can vote against the motion in the VONC, and if they lose, they can leave the party and she can stand as an independent or a New Party candidate or whatever.

According to the Beeb article:

Quote

Votes of no confidence carry no official force within the Labour Party, but local activists could hold a "trigger ballot", where sitting Labour MPs can be forced to compete for selection as a candidate against all-comers, ahead of the next general election.

 

[bickster]

Yup VONCs are meaningless at the constituency level

EDIT: The right-wing MP for Birken Vasey, Frank Field faced a VONC, lost and resigned the whip, he was under no obligation to do so

[blandy]

5 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

She literally does both of those things, lots of the time. She was happy to be mentioned in the papers on Sunday as flaunting the possibility of leaving the party. 

I'm not trying to defend every single comment that every person who wants rid of her has ever made, because I'm sure there's a whopper or two to find. But on the substance of the complaint, it's hard to disagree. It's not a surprise that party members don't feel well-represented by someone who criticises the party constantly (it's also the same with Boles of course. Even if I feel more sympathetic to him relative to his opponents, it's still understandable why they want rid of him). 

If other Labour members don't like it, they can vote against the motion in the VONC, and if they lose, they can leave the party and she can stand as an independent or a New Party candidate or whatever. 

Yes, I don't much disagree with that (apart from the part about forming a new party). The reason I posted it was to refute the tweet peter posted saying she was facing the vote of NC because she  was " perpetually threatening to leave Labour and start a new party" which she wasn't.

She's clearly (rightly IMO) massively uncomfortable with the Labour leader's approach on Brexit and the anti-semitism problem. Strangely (or not) most of the country and most of the Labour membership shares her distaste. I hope she's not deselected.

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

3 minutes ago, blandy said:

Yes, I don't much disagree with that (apart from the part about forming a new party). The reason I posted it was to refute the tweet peter posted saying she was facing the vote of NC because she  was " perpetually threatening to leave Labour and start a new party" which she wasn't.

She's clearly (rightly IMO) massively uncomfortable with the Labour leader's approach on Brexit and the anti-semitism problem. Strangely (or not) most of the country and most of the Labour membership shares her distaste. I hope she's not deselected.

 

 

You're right that 'threatening to start a new party' wasn't listed as a reason for the VONC, but 'threatening to leave Labour and start a new party' is very much something that she's doing (I don't know that I would use the word 'perpetually') and it's not a stretch to think that this is something her local party members have noticed and disapprove of, especially given the story in the Observer on Sunday:

'A group of disaffected Labour MPs is preparing to quit the party and form a breakaway movement on the political centre ground amid growing discontent with Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership on Brexit and other key issues including immigration, foreign policy and antisemitism.

The Observer has been told by multiple sources that at least six MPs have been drawing up plans to resign the whip and leave the party soon. There have also been discussions involving senior figures about a potentially far larger group splitting off at some point after Brexit, if Corbyn fails to do everything possible to oppose Theresa May’s plans for taking the UK out of the EU.

On Saturday night, three of the MPs widely rumoured to be involved in the plans for an initial breakaway – Angela Smith, Chris Leslie and Luciana Berger – refused to be drawn into talk of a split, and insisted they were focused on opposing Brexit. But they did not deny that moves could be made by the spring or early summer.'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/02/rebel-labour-mps-set-to-quit-party-and-form-centre-group

[bickster]

17 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

She literally does both of those things, lots of the time. She was happy to be mentioned in the papers on Sunday as flaunting the possibility of leaving the party. 

I'm not trying to defend every single comment that every person who wants rid of her has ever made, because I'm sure there's a whopper or two to find. But on the substance of the complaint, it's hard to disagree. It's not a surprise that party members don't feel well-represented by someone who criticises the party constantly (it's also the same with Boles of course. Even if I feel more sympathetic to him relative to his opponents, it's still understandable why they want rid of him). 

If other Labour members don't like it, they can vote against the motion in the VONC, and if they lose, they can leave the party and she can stand as an independent or a New Party candidate or whatever. 

She has been attacked in an antisemitic manner for a good number of years from people both within the party and on the left generally. These aren't a handful of people. I even know some of them, they were at Uni at the same time as me. This isn't something that started last year, it's been going on for the best part of five years to my knowledge. It started because she's in the Labour Friends of Israel group and for no other reason

This has been a long time coming but it was bound to come to a head soon, her comments in the paper this week just speeded it up slightly and gave them an excuse.

The idea that you can't criticise the leader of the Party is laughable because Labour is supposedly proud of it's "broad church", in fact the Labour Party was founded as and by a broad church of different left groups in the first place. The members who've brought this action can't be honest about why they've brought it and even the excuse they've offered appears to be in direct opposition to the principals on which the party is founded

Oh and for the record, I don't particularly like Ms Berger because of her stance on Israel but the abuse that has come back in her direction is completely unwarranted and has crossed the line very many times. DId Labour do anything about it? No

[bickster]

Oh and the outcome of this all depends on how the three factions line up. Will the Chippy Tits faction vote with the Nick Small Faction and will the momentum faction know which way to turn. Don't bank on the factions actually voting the way you'd think they should, this is the Liverpool Labour Party after all.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said:

rumoured

So, based on a paper's unattributable "rumour" and unattributable sources, she's accused of "threatening to leave". She's said nothing about leaving and made no threats.

She has been on the end of a lot of threats, though.

It's poor. Really poor.

[HanoiVillan]

9 minutes ago, blandy said:

So, based on a paper's unattributable "rumour" and unattributable sources, she's accused of "threatening to leave". She's said nothing about leaving and made no threats.

She has been on the end of a lot of threats, though.

It's poor. Really poor.

I'm pretty confident here that newspapers don't just print random people's names next to rumours. She 'refused to talk' about it, but 'did not deny' it, which is exactly what you would expect from someone who is absolutely happy to have these rumours in the paper, and might even have been the person to call or alert Toby Helm in the first place (one of them clearly did). 

Politicians do actually talk to journalists and say things off the record. 

[snowychap]

According to the Beeb, the two motions of no confidence have now been pulled.

Quote

Motions of no confidence in Labour MP Luciana Berger have been withdrawn by her local party after a bitter row.

 

[RunRickyRun]

What a f***ing mess

[bickster]

57 minutes ago, snowychap said:

According to the Beeb, the two motions of no confidence have now been pulled.

 

 

The Chippy Tits faction won, reading between the lines

[peterms]

7 hours ago, blandy said:

That's false. The motions of NC are that "Instead of fighting for a Labour government, our MP is continually using the media to criticise the man we all want to be Prime Minister." and "continuously criticising our leader when she should be working towards a general election"

Nothing to do with alleged threats to Leave or start a new party.

You're right about what the motions said.  The reason they were brought seems to be her perceived disloyalty to the party, in the form of repeated attacks on the party and the leadership, and her refusal when directly invited to deny rumours that she is one of a handful of MPs who have been discussing for some time forming a breakaway party.

Party members don't like that sort of thing, unsurprisingly.

[blandy]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I'm pretty confident here that newspapers don't just print random people's names next to rumours. She 'refused to talk' about it, but 'did not deny' it, which is exactly what you would expect from someone who is absolutely happy to have these rumours in the paper, and might even have been the person to call or alert Toby Helm in the first place (one of them clearly did). 

Politicians do actually talk to journalists and say things off the record. 

Oh indeed. Off the record etc.   Not exactly a “threat” though is it?

[StefanAVFC]

I think this country is broadly centre, to centre right and will vote for a figurehead rather than policies.

I know it's unprincipled for a lot of the party but Labour need a Blair again to win.

[chrisp65]

Just now, StefanAVFC said:

I think this country is broadly centre, to centre right and will vote for a figurehead rather than policies.

I know it's unprincipled for a lot of the party but Labour need a Blair again to win.

I think on blind testing of policies, people are broadly Labour.

They want fairness and access to housing, jobs and education for all etc..

Then something weird happens, an election arrives and they want to keep any perceived advantage they've scraped together and they want the value of their ex council house protected, they dislike teachers, they dislike kids and they dislike worker serfs, and they vote tory.