Awol Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 36 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: I'm not sure Brexit needs to be their number one ? It's going to happen and Labour aren't going to stop it , to all extents it should rank about 593rd on their list i agree about social care , something needs to be done , I suspect Corbyns solution will be scrap Trident and tax the rich , neither of which are likely to get him elected ... the concern is He wants to re-nationalise the railways and utility companies , save the NHS by chucking billions at it and then improve social care .... where is the money coming from ? Even if we do opt for trident subs without the trident , it's still not going to be enough Agree on social care, I think there's a fairly straightforward case to be made that the 2010-15 cuts are a major factor in the NHS' problems today. I also supported the railways being back in public ownership, until last Christmas. Was chatting with my father in law who used to be station master at Euston under British Rail (so knows the ropes) and he reckons the cost of taking the system back from the private sector would be vast and completely unaffordable. I'd like to see it happen but don't know how, practically, it could be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 52 minutes ago, Awol said: Agree on social care, I think there's a fairly straightforward case to be made that the 2010-15 cuts are a major factor in the NHS' problems today. I also supported the railways being back in public ownership, until last Christmas. Was chatting with my father in law who used to be station master at Euston under British Rail (so knows the ropes) and he reckons the cost of taking the system back from the private sector would be vast and completely unaffordable. I'd like to see it happen but don't know how, practically, it could be done. Isn't the proposed idea simply 'not issuing new operating licences' each time one comes up for renewal? In other words, it would prohibitively expensive to do in one big burst, but if spaced over many, many years it could be done. I should say I have no real opinion on whether it's a good idea or not. I tend, ideologically, to think it would be, but I haven't seen much persuasive evidence that it would. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Awol said: Agree on social care, I think there's a fairly straightforward case to be made that the 2010-15 cuts are a major factor in the NHS' problems today. I also supported the railways being back in public ownership, until last Christmas. Was chatting with my father in law who used to be station master at Euston under British Rail (so knows the ropes) and he reckons the cost of taking the system back from the private sector would be vast and completely unaffordable. I'd like to see it happen but don't know how, practically, it could be done. Don't the contracts expire on a given date ( different date for each franchise ) and thus come back up for tender ? A quick law change from the railways act that said the public sector couldn't bid and voila by 2029 the railways are nationalised again without having to pay compensation to existing franchises ? Of course the irony being that one of the potential obstacles to all this was the EU first Railway Directive which now the ignorant have voted to leave has removed an obstacle for the enlightened ones to move a step close to Utopia edit - seems Hanoi beat me to it regarding contracts Edited January 15, 2017 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Isn't the proposed idea simply 'not issuing new operating licences' each time one comes up for renewal? In other words, it would prohibitively expensive to do in one big burst, but if spaced over many, many years it could be done. I should say I have no real opinion on whether it's a good idea or not. I tend, ideologically, to think it would be, but I haven't seen much persuasive evidence that it would. I wonder if there have been any examples to compare with the privatised shit show... East Coast Quote East Coast was a subsidiary of Directly Operated Railways, formed by the Department for Transport as an operator of last resort when National Express was refused further financial support to its National Express East Coast (NXEC) subsidiary and consequently lost its franchise.[3] The franchise was re-nationalised on 14 November 2009, with the intention being that operations would return to a private franchisee by December 2013.[4] In March 2013 the Secretary of State for Transport announced that this would occur in February 2015 instead.[5] In January 2014, FirstGroup, Keolis/Eurostar and Stagecoach/Virgin were announced as the shortlisted bidders Quote East Coast paid back over £1 billion to the government over the course of its franchise 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 A very small sample size but a local ward near to me has just been held by conservative in the by-election. The thing is, labour have made up quite a lot of ground and to come a not hugely distant 2nd. And round here is massively conservative. It's Sajid Javid's constituency who they parachuted in to hold it when Julie Kirkbridge resigned over the expenses scandal. So Labour have some reason to be positive about this result. Rather than going backwards, they've made up some ground in an area they wouldn't be expected to. Again, it's a tiny sample size so perhaps completely inconsequential https://bromsgrovestandard.co.uk/news/conservatives-hold-onto-norton-ward-following-bromsgrove-district-council-by-election/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 22, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 22, 2017 Diane Abbott is being taken to pieces by Andrew Neil on Sunday Politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 22, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 22, 2017 You could replace Andrew Neil with a cardboard cutout of someone else and she'd be taken to pieces. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 22, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 22, 2017 55 minutes ago, Chindie said: You could replace Andrew Neil with a cardboard cutout of someone else and she'd be taken to pieces. Very true. I thought he might go easy on her given their past presenting history but oh no, clearly she was thinking the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Labour MP's involved in £18,500 donation to UKIP Quote Statement, re: UKIP donation 27 January 2017 During the EU referendum campaign, Labour Leave co-organised events with other groups in favour of Brexit. These were cross-party events and included representatives from Labour, the Conservatives and UKIP, as well as non-partisan organisations. We sought clarity from the Electoral Commission to ensure we were compliant, and they advised us to pay our share of the cost in the form of a donation. This one-off payment to UKIP was solely our share of this cost. The figure covered the cost of venue hire, transport, accommodation and security for the events. We believe that Labour is the only party that can create a brighter, fairer and more prosperous future for Britain. Labour Leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Well, that's wiped out the joining fees of more than 6,000 new members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Gah, Labour are an absolute disaster. Depressing disaster. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 7 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Well, that's wiped out the joining fees of more than 6,000 new members. Which includes me. Bye Labour, I'm off back to where my heart is, Green. Pity because my local constituent gets about 20 votes each GE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 2 hours ago, darrenm said: ...I'm off back to where my heart is, Green. Pity because my local constituent gets about 20 votes each GE. Maybe so, but at least they are principled, consistent and clean. A stronger, larger green movement would be a very good thing and may happen as more disillusioned people drift away from Corbyn's left wing populism. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I'm a pragmatist, but I'm being tested by Corbyn. He's an old activist not not a leader. Its going to take a demolition in a GE to get rid of him, all the while Labour are bleeding core voters to other parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 28, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Awol said: A stronger, larger green movement would be a very good thing and may happen as more disillusioned people drift away from Corbyn's left wing populism. That's an interesting perspective - I also think a stronger, larger green movement would be a good thing - but I think the reasoning is the opposite - Corbyn is failing to turn the Labour party into an effective left wing party with populist policies and people are becoming disillusioned and turning to a Green Party that already have those policies in place - the Green Party is more left leaning than the Labour party in most areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 45 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: That's an interesting perspective - I also think a stronger, larger green movement would be a good thing - but I think the reasoning is the opposite - Corbyn is failing to turn the Labour party into an effective left wing party with populist policies and people are becoming disillusioned and turning to a Green Party that already have those policies in place - the Green Party is more left leaning than the Labour party in most areas. I sorta keep hearing about how the nation agrees with left leaning policies like the greens have and Corbyns left views ... and yet haven't elected a left government in yonks it can't all be down to media brainwashing can it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Looks like time for the annual reminder that Green politics is essentially conservative in nature. That doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong, of course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 28, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 28, 2017 Quote Equity & social justice EC202 To achieve an equitable distribution of resources, wealth, opportunity and power which ensures access for all to the means of sustenance and of personal and social development. Decentralisation & devolution EC203 To devolve economic power to the lowest appropriate level, thereby rendering participants in the economy at all levels less vulnerable to the damaging effects of economic decisions made elsewhere and over which they have no control; to support the 'informal' sector (notably by provision of a Citizens' Income for all) thus reducing the impact of the formal economy. Self-reliance with interdependence EC204 To liberate and empower all sections of society to meet their needs as far as possible from their own resources through activities which are socially enhancing; to encourage all to contribute to society according to their abilities, recognising as they do so, responsibility for themselves, for others, for future generations and for the planet. https://policy.greenparty.org.uk/ec.html The Greens are essentially a socialist party - they're against the prevailing economic global regime and directly in opposition to the Washington Consensus and by extension right wing thought. The want to restore the private sector, impose regulation on the corporate and banking sphere and end austerity. Am I reading them wrong? I'm not sure how they can be seen as Conservative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: they're against the prevailing economic global regime Yet they want to remain in the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted January 28, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 28, 2017 Green parties will never hold significant power until either they fundamentally change or its too late. They aren't immediately obviously offering policies of self interest, and they exist with an image of a single interest party, with a hint of 'loony left', so people won't vote for them. That will prevent them usurping Labours niche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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