Jon Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 True, although the scumbags could in theory oust May, install X, and not have/ call a GE. They'd be shit scared of calling a GE right now .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 It must be a sure thing Labour get in next... all part of the cyclical routine of UK Government. They'll have their 10 years or so then the Tories will be back. Rinse and repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 59 minutes ago, Xela said: It must be a sure thing Labour get in next... all part of the cyclical routine of UK Government. They'll have their 10 years or so then the Tories will be back. Rinse and repeat. Interesting discussion here from someone in the political centre, arguing that we have moved away from the usual cycle into something more sinister, and that the left needs to overturn the rise of plutocracy. Quote ...We have a right wing media organisation that has overthrown the Republican political establishment, and a right wing press that has overthrown a right wing government. How some political scientists can continue to analyse this as if the media were simply passive, supportive or even invisible when it brings down governments or subverts political parties I do not know. Trump and Brexit are the creations of a kind of plutocracy. Politics in the US has had strong plutocratic elements for some time, because of the way that money can sway elections. That gave finance a powerful influence in the Democratic party, and made the Republicans obsessive about cutting higher tax rates. In the UK plutocracy has been almost non-existent by comparison, and operated mainly through party funding and seats in the House of Lords, although we are still finding out where the money behind the Brexit campaign came from... ...We are very close to a point where neoliberalism becomes something much worse. The POTUS is following a fascist strategy of demonising a religious minority. If Mueller’s investigations proceed as expected, but he is sacked and/or the Republicans block any attempt at impeachment, we may have passed that critical point. If the Brexiters succeed in breaking away from the EU’s customs union and single market, the UK may have nowhere else to go but the arms of a permanently Republican US. If there is a way of escaping this fate, and rescuing democracy in both the UK and US, it has to involve a democratic defeat of the right wing parties that allowed this plutocracy to emerge, and indeed encouraged it and then made bargains with it when it believed it was still in control. The defeat has to be overwhelming and total. Those who brought us Brexit and backed or tolerated Trump have to be disgraced as the harbingers of disaster. Their control of the Republican and Conservative parties must end. Only that will allow the left, and I think it has to be the left, to end a system by which elements of the plutocracy can control so much of the means of information. In the UK that means extending rules that apply to broadcasters, suitably adapted, to the press. In the US it means not just bringing back the Fairness doctrine repealed under Reagan, but also bringing controls on election spending similar to those in the UK (and the UK controls need to be strengthened). In short, we need to take money out of politics to ensure democracy survives. Give journalists the freedom to write about or broadcast the news as they see it, rather than as their employer want it to be seen. Why the left rather than the centre? The centre will agonise over what this means for freedom of expression or freedom of the press and therefore nothing much will happen (see Leveson), as nothing happened under Clinton or Blair. That may be a little unfair to both leaders, because the danger of plutocracy may have been less obvious back then, and the media was more restrained. But with Brexit and Trump no further evidence is needed. The left should see more clearly how in practice this freedom is in reality just a freedom to sustain a plutocracy. Only it will have the courage to radically reverse the power and wealth of the 1%. I fear the centre will not have the will to do it. Although Anthony Barnett’s focus differs from mine, he puts this point very well here: if all you want to do is stop Brexit and Trump and go back to what you regard as normal, you miss that what was normal led to Brexit and Trump. That will have many wise and sensible people shaking their head, but the alternative does not work. Defeating or impeaching Trump and letting the Republican party survive in its current form achieves little, because they will go on gerrymandering and Fox news will go on poisoning minds. The energy of Democrats will be spent on trying to clear up the damage Trump has caused, and the next autocrat from Republican ranks who wins power because they will ‘clear the swamp’ will be smarter than Trump. In the UK, if the Conservatives survive in their current form, their ageing membership is in danger of selecting more Brexit nutters who will overwhelm the dwindling number of reasonable Conservative MPs. We will find the BBC, if it survives at all, will become more and more like the mouthpiece of a press dominated by plutocrats. [1] In either case a critical point will have passed... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Corbyn and McDonnell (especially the latter) are two of the most sinister politicians I can think of. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Went to see Dennis Skinner: Nature of the Beast, at the Miners' Hall in Durham last night. The great man was in attendance, and did a Q&A after. Got to meet him, and I think I must have come across like a teenage girl meeting One Direction. My mate had the honour of picking him up from his home, and bringing him up to Durham. I was asked if I wanted to take him back, but I had too much on today to do it. Bit gutted about that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post meregreen Posted December 4, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Risso said: Corbyn and McDonnell (especially the latter) are two of the most sinister politicians I can think of. Saw McDonnell speak with Corbyn at West Bromwich last week. They both came across as very committed to rolling back the neo Liberal wasteland that we have now. Nothing sinister about them at all. Right wing mud slinging simply doesn’t work anymore. The bullshit from the Murdoch and Dacre propaganda machine, has been well and truly rumbled. Looking forward to Corbyn entering No. 10. Edited December 4, 2017 by meregreen 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 4, 2017 Moderator Share Posted December 4, 2017 14 hours ago, Risso said: Corbyn and McDonnell (especially the latter) are two of the most sinister politicians I can think of. Tend to agree, though John Redwood says you didn’t think very hard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 21 hours ago, Risso said: Corbyn and McDonnell (especially the latter) are two of the most sinister politicians I can think of. Because....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 6 hours ago, bobzy said: Because....? Haven't you heard, they're terrorists that wouldn't start a nuclear war and communists out to destroy the economy. So say the Establishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted December 4, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 4, 2017 On 12/3/2017 at 15:38, Risso said: Corbyn and McDonnell (especially the latter) are two of the most sinister politicians I can think of. They wouldn't be in my top 20. If Redwood, B Johnson, Fox, Leadsom, Duncan Smith, Farage, Neil Hamilton, Rees Mogg, Crabb, Goldsmith, Cash, Fallon, Hunt, Kinnock, Patel, Letwin, Shapps, Grayling and Gove all perished in a terrible sex game gone wrong, then yeah, they could easily get in to my top 20. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Momentum being investigated over whether or not they broke election spending rules. The Electoral Commission is investigating whether the Labour-supporting Momentum group broke finance rules during the 2017 general election. The elections watchdog says its probe will consider if Momentum's returns included accurate donation information. It said questions over compliance risked harming voter confidence. (Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42264630) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 Good. If they broke the rules, they should be punished - though given how easily the Tories got off in the end re the 'battle bus', I doubt there'll be much in the way of punishment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Abstainer Jeremy. His friends say he's secretly a remainer but night after night he abstains rather than vote against the government... (just getting some balance so I can look tony h in the eye next time he says we're all actually the same guy with 12 different accounts) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Corbyn wouldn't buy you a voucher from the tax dodging Amazon. He's a boring sod. A book on how to cultivate courgettes or a wax rubbing of his favourite manhole cover (and that's not a euphemism for Diane Abbott's pubis) are more likely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 14 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said: Corbyn wouldn't buy you a voucher from the tax dodging Amazon. He's a boring sod. A book on how to cultivate courgettes or a wax rubbing of his favourite manhole cover (and that's not a euphemism for Diane Abbott's pubis) are more likely. he’ll probably also tell you he’ll pay for Christmas dinner for you and all your mates and then remember he left his wallet at home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 26 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Abstainer Jeremy. His friends say he's secretly a remainer but night after night he abstains rather than vote against the government... (just getting some balance so I can look tony h in the eye next time he says we're all actually the same guy with 12 different accounts) It can’t be a coincidence I’ve never seen you and snowy in the same room together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: It can’t be a coincidence I’ve never seen you and snowy in the same room together we are actually identical twins, especially me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 8 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: we are actually identical twins, especially me You weren’t the same once Graig Logan left the band 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) see, I presumed you were going to offer an alternative picture of jedward now I have to google who graig logan is... ahh! it was a kind of jedward joke, but from an older generation! Edited December 21, 2017 by chrisp65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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