Wage Bill

[Hank Scorpio]

Well with our income and no European football on the horizon that probably isn't sustainable spending

[HalfTimePost]

2 minutes ago, Dale said:

Yes, I share this concern. And it's not about the wages more the value. Coutinho probably in double Buendia, Bentancur likely on double McGinn (three times Luiz). Big question over value when you're buying big names from glamorous clubs. 

Bringing in high earners drives up salaries for those already here. 

Yes exactly.

If Bentancur comes in on £150k but is crap (I'm sure he won't be but hypothetically) and Dougie has a Stormer and Bentancur is benched...Get to the summer when Luiz contract is up for negotiation, might've been ok on £80k and suddenly demand £150k? Even if he gets £110k it's £6m over 4yrs.

Fine for one player but apply it to 4/5 and it adds up.

Again. I'm fine with big money. Yes £150k sounds a lot but I'd happily have had Jack in £200k. Value was there and clear he'd be worth it and wouldn't have upset the squad until they believed they were reaching his level.

The risk comes when you chuck 3 players in out of nowhere on that money. If suddenly the other players are on their level. The demands become unmanageable and pretty justifiable from the players perspective.

And that's before Agents come for bigger fees and their slice of the pie

[ender4]

5 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

It's the lack of structure for me. Key players on £150k I can get around. It's the buying Ings as a key player on £120k as top earner and 6 months later he's neither a key player or top earner.

Digne comes in on £140k and Bentancur on £150k. Doesnt appear to be a structure we're working towards to keep things sensible or defined.

 

Seems pretty structured to me.  Everyone we are signing seems to be in the new wage structure between £100-160k /week.

Coutinho - £160k

Bentancur - £150k

Digne - £140k

Ings - £120k

Martinez (new contract) - £100k

 

[dappadan]

11 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

Yes exactly.

If Bentancur comes in on £150k but is crap (I'm sure he won't be but hypothetically) and Dougie has a Stormer and Bentancur is benched...Get to the summer when Luiz contract is up for negotiation, might've been ok on £80k and suddenly demand £150k? Even if he gets £110k it's £6m over 4yrs.

Fine for one player but apply it to 4/5 and it adds up.

Again. I'm fine with big money. Yes £150k sounds a lot but I'd happily have had Jack in £200k. Value was there and clear he'd be worth it and wouldn't have upset the squad until they believed they were reaching his level.

The risk comes when you chuck 3 players in out of nowhere on that money. If suddenly the other players are on their level. The demands become unmanageable and pretty justifiable from the players perspective.

And that's before Agents come for bigger fees and their slice of the pie

So what is the alternative? Sign lesser players for cheaper wages and continue to bob around mid table having the odd flirt with relegation? 

If we want quality then we have to pay for it. 

[Frank Raphael]

Guys chill out ffs.

 

We're loaded.

 

[mikeyp102]

Whilst it does seem a lot, you have to pay quality to get quality. I trust Purslow and co to know what is going on with the books and to make the right decision

[Dale]

26 minutes ago, dappadan said:

So what is the alternative? Sign lesser players for cheaper wages and continue to bob around mid table having the odd flirt with relegation? 

If we want quality then we have to pay for it. 

Sign players and improve them... Leicester have finished fifth past couple of years, I don't think they have a player on £100k a week. 

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, Dale said:

Sign players and improve them... Leicester have finished fifth past couple of years, I don't think they have a player on £100k a week. 

At least 3 as of last season above £100k

https://www.spotrac.com/Premier League/leicester-city/payroll/

 

[Dale]

Just now, nick76 said:

At least 3 as of last season above £100k

https://www.spotrac.com/Premier League/leicester-city/payroll/

 

Bad value on those high earners too! But these aren't new signings, these are guys that did it for Leicester first. 

Jack getting a massive deal wouldn't rock the boat at Villa. He earned it here. Players coming in from outside on massive wages who could be duds at Villa, think that's a less good way of operating.

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, Dale said:

Bad value on those high earners too! But these aren't new signings, these are guys that did it for Leicester first. 

Jack getting a massive deal wouldn't rock the boat at Villa. He earned it here. Players coming in from outside on massive wages who could be duds at Villa, think that's a less good way of operating.

Bad value on those guys? They are the core of the team, the reason why Leicester do so well. A brilliant goalkeeper, a lethal finisher with bags of pace and a midfielder that yes is hot and cold but really good when he is like this season.  I think they are good value.

As for new signings, Daka is rumoured to be on anywhere between £65-80k per week and I thought a great signing but always a risk to step up to the PL.  no idea what Soumare is on but probably in the same region.  Ndidi was what? Only a season before but is on £75k per week. We aren’t talking vast differences to £100k per week for relate unknowns before they came to league.

If you want quality you have to pay for it, the more unknown the more risk but you are still not that far off the £80k per week region.

[Kiwivillan]

1 hour ago, Dale said:

Bentancur likely on double McGinn

He's only on £75k a week at Juve according to a few websites and Juve anorak on Villa podcast talking about Bentancur said he's on even less £2 million a year. 

Where is everyone getting £150k per week from?

[allani]

Our owners have been in / around sport for several years now and have been very successful in business for much longer.  Whilst the rules around salary payments are very different in US sports - there is nothing in the way that these guys operate that suggest that they do not know how to plan financially or how to manage a budget.  I know our previous owners have not exactly excelled in either regard - but when Lerner took over there were some rumours from the States that his running of franchises there was not perhaps as great as it could be.  We (I) kind of overlooked that thought that either he would have learned his lesson or that maybe fans were just a bit disgruntled because they were having some tough results.  But I have not seen anything that suggests that Wes does anything but run the Bucks very well - most reports seem to suggest that they are one of the best run outfits in the league.  Plus Purslow seems to be all over the FFP rules - knowing what he can push where and what he can't.  It is an area that he seems to pride himself on and so I would be VERY surprised if we are doing anything that we can't get through FFP.  We might be close to the wire in places in terms of interpretation but I would be shocked if that was the case that we didn't already have a strong legal case already in our pocket to defend ourselves.

The biggest worry is that we budget for income that we don't receive (usually this happens when clubs set their budgets based on getting into the latter stages of the Champions League every year) and then we have a huge gap in the accounts.  But whilst the owners through Purslow constantly talk about ambition, they also talk a lot about sustainability.  There just seems too much noise about the future for them to be hoodwinked into over-spending in the short term in the hope that the income will follow.

I think we're right as a fan base to be worried (we've been hit badly in the past by bad decision making, budgeting and over-spending on wages) and I think we are right to ask questions in fan meetings with the club.  The club does need to be accountable to the fans and prove that they are running the club well.  However, NSWE and Purslow appear to be running a pretty tight ship so far here and (as far as I know) in their wider business empires.  It would appear as though if we were outspending what we could afford then that would be contrary to the way that they do everything else.

One thing worth thinking about is that Coutinho was on stupid wages before - we've picked him up at a level where his wages are easily within market value £160k a week for one of the top talents of world football is not something that other clubs would sniff at if we needed to sell.  Even if we double the wages of Bentancur, he would still be earning a lot less than half the wages that Arthur and Ramsey are earning.  For a 24 year old regular international the proposed wages aren't that out of line with the market value again.

To be honest all I am seeing so far is a series of purchases where we are taking advantage of other issues to pick up quality players at a really good price (Coutinho for £33m - if he is 80% of the player he was is incredible value, Digne we've got for well under what the best left back outside the Top 6 should be worth, Bentancur again sounds like we're negotiating at a competitive price.  I mean £25 million for a 24 year old international with CL experience at one of the biggest clubs in the world, when Newcastle paid that for a not very prolific striker from Burnley.  Almost all independent commentary I have read about our transfers so far has been talking about what a great window we are having.

I get some of the concerns (once bitten, twice shy and all that) but everything at the moment suggests that the club is being run in the best way by the best people we've ever had at this club (certainly in my lifetime).  

[allani]

25 minutes ago, Dale said:

Sign players and improve them... Leicester have finished fifth past couple of years, I don't think they have a player on £100k a week. 

If Coutinho has a good season for us next year - there will be plenty of teams willing to pay more than we paid for him.  Bentancur meets almost every single checkmark that we've talked about - young, potential, high ceiling, decent price.  If he has a season of Uruguay form then we could easily double our money (City are believed to have been chasing him for £40m last year).  We wanted an immediate upgrade on Targett.  We got the absolute best on the market.  Last summer we took a player that we signed for nothing and sold him for £100m.  Emi Martinez we'd sell at a massive profit if we wanted to (at least double what we paid).  Matty Cash has become an international since we signed him so there is profit there.  Mings and Konsa have both risen in value too.  If we sell Luiz we'll make a tidy margin on what we paid.  JJ cost us nothing.  McGinn we are talking about a 15x profit on (at least).  Watkins we won't sell for less than £10m profit.  If Buendia keeps up his current form he's worth £40-50 million of anyone's money.

I mean what more is the club supposed to be doing?????

[david-avfc]

We can pay decent wages provided the players are contributing and adding value to the club. The problem is having an extended list of high earners who are mostly sat on the bench or in the reserves.

 

I don’t think many people have a clue on individual player wages, apart from a few cases when it’s specifically been reported by a respected journalist. Stuff on random websites could be complete make believe, some of them are probably as accurate as FIFA or Football Manager

[HalfTimePost]

35 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Bad value on those guys? They are the core of the team, the reason why Leicester do so well. A brilliant goalkeeper, a lethal finisher with bags of pace and a midfielder that yes is hot and cold but really good when he is like this season.  I think they are good value.

As for new signings, Daka is rumoured to be on anywhere between £65-80k per week and I thought a great signing but always a risk to step up to the PL.  no idea what Soumare is on but probably in the same region.  Ndidi was what? Only a season before but is on £75k per week. We aren’t talking vast differences to £100k per week for relate unknowns before they came to league.

If you want quality you have to pay for it, the more unknown the more risk but you are still not that far off the £80k per week region.

We are taking vast differences from £75k to £150k though. Literally two Ndidi's if we think that's what he's on. None of the players we have discussed are on £100k according to that tweet.

[paul514]

You have to pay good wages to get good players..... generally.

Our issue is going to be two fold

1. what if you don't make it to the high revenues 
2. The gap between now and then where wages will be a much higher proportion of revenue.

Just as a side note, the owners may be thinking of cutting the transfer funds off in a couple of years if we haven't made it to the promise land of high revenues as we should have had a few good kids through then?

Edited January 26, 2022 by paul514

[nick76]

11 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

We are taking vast differences from £75k to £150k though. Literally two Ndidi's if we think that's what he's on. None of the players we have discussed are on £100k according to that tweet.

You are assuming we are going to Bentancur £150k per week based on what? A couple of tweets.  I bet it’s not in that area if he’s on £75k now. 

[MSvillain]

The only reason this concerns me is that I believe the European competitions have different FFP rules to the prem so if we achieve that goal, we may get punished.

Pretty sure that's what happened to wolves 

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, dappadan said:

So what is the alternative? Sign lesser players for cheaper wages and continue to bob around mid table having the odd flirt with relegation? 

If we want quality then we have to pay for it. 

Remember when Doug Ellis was the most hated man on the planet because he wouldn't push the boat out to sign better players?

Everyone used to moan so much about it. Now we do that people moan. 

We've got some very very clever people in charge, I'm sure they've done the sums and have some contingency in place for players who fail. 

And people think Ings is a peripheral player? He's played in nearly every game this season. Strikers are expensive, people have to get over that. 

[foreveryoung]

If we want European football, in say 5-10 years buy cheap and try improve the players, risking them moving on when they get good. If we want European football within 3 years, carry on doing what we are doing and I would think we will get there.

Or there abouts