BOF Posted July 12, 2007 Moderator Share Posted July 12, 2007 or "Political Correctness Gone Mad" for that matter, before that oxymoron rears its ugly head again..... For the love of all things decent, No ! Although I think it is decisions like the one described above that people do refer to when they use your favourite oxymoron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Herge was a nazi sympathiser where did you get that info from ? it's a a claim which was largely unfounded and to my knowledge he fought for Belgium agianst the German invasion ...one of his cartoons (The Land of the Black Gold ) was banned due to it's anti facist overtones from a lecture I had on francophone lit around the war time, just stood out as something I'd remember. I'll try and find a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 hoaving looked on wikipedia, it seems that was a rahter dubious claim from said lecturer. Quality education I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 gollywogs didn't actively portray negative racial stereotypes as far as i can recall. Or have i missed something. Yes you have. In the Noddy & Bigears books they were always the villans, behaving like bullies. Theres one particular episode of "carjacking" of noddys car, where you see it clearly. Golliwogs were never particularly loveable characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa_Rosa Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 It's like this "Winterval", "Winterfest" and all that nonsense at Christmas. Yeah, but I have never actually experienced this first hand - I only ever read about it on BNP posters/propaganda filth and the Daily Mail (who said they were the same thing?) I beleive this sort of thing happens very rarely and we only get to hear about it because the likes of Richard Littlejohn actively sniff out the very odd instances and then plaster it all over the gutter press and claim we're all off to hell in a handcart. As for Gollywogs, the point isn't whether you had one and didn't grow up a racist, the point is that it is perpetuating a stereotype that penetrates into people's subconscious. They, like the Black and White minstrels and daft 'comedys' like Mind Your Language are wrong and shouldn't exist in this day and age. They don't mean harm, but that doesn't mean they're not racist. What if there was a doll that portrayed Jewish people as hook-nosed, hand-wringing Shylock types. Would that be OK? Or one of Welsh people making the beast with two backs (or with one back and a very odd middle) with a sheep. And be careful, I've cambrian blood flowing along with claret and blue I take the point about kids not thinking that way, but I'm sure the constant bombarding of negative stereotypes and imagery that occured in less PC times was responisble for a lot of misery experienced by immigrants. The less of this type of thing that is around the better full stop. Heaven forbid we celebrate a religious occasion I'd ban the lot mate, whatever they're called Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 12, 2007 Moderator Share Posted July 12, 2007 As for Gollywogs, the point isn't whether you had one and didn't grow up a racist, the point is that it is perpetuating a stereotype that penetrates into people's subconscious. They, like the Black and White minstrels and daft 'comedys' like Mind Your Language are wrong and shouldn't exist in this day and age. What if there was a doll that portrayed Jewish people as hook-nosed, hand-wringing Shylock types. Would that be OK? Umm, I presume you also read this part of my response Now I fully accept (and agree with the fact) that you can't get them anymore So to re-answer your question, no it wouldn't be OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa_Rosa Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Yeah I read it BOF. The question wasn't aimed at you mate, rather just generally. Apart from the issue about whether it is harmless because kids don't think that way, I reckon we agree. You know, this bit: I take the point about kids not thinking that way, but I'm sure the constant bombarding of negative stereotypes and imagery that occured in less PC times was responisble for a lot of misery experienced by immigrants. The less of this type of thing that is around the better full stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 ok so the golliwog sin Noddy were sterotyping and clearly racist :shock: I thought it was merely portraying a mere toy with an adventurous spirit ?? ..what exactly did the golliwog on Robertson's jam portray that he had to be banned ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 The one criticising the thread and the people in it that wasn't contributing anything to the discussion? It was deleted. PM on its way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa_Rosa Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 ok so the golliwog sin Noddy were sterotyping and clearly racist I thought it was merely portraying a mere toy with an adventurous spirit ?? You must have been watching a different Noddy to me then if you though the Gollies on that weren't sneaky sinister creatures to be feared and opposed. They scared me silly! ..what exactly did the golliwog on Robertson's jam portray that he had to be banned ? That it's OK to caricature an entire race of people as moon faced, big-eyed, thicklipped buffoons that dress up as fireman, postmen etc for our entertainment. Same principle as the Black and White minstrels. What if a company decided to use the Jewish stereotype I mentioned earlier on their marmalade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedvado Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Theres a shop in Strattford on the high street that sell a large array of golliwogs big and small ( among other touristy type things ), i was there in April although a little suprised to see them i didn't feel the need to burn the shop down or report it to the police. Also anyone remember that exaust place (goolywogs - we don't put jam in jars we put exaust on cars ! ) near the big mosque in town, in fact it's next to er..... that lap daning club sensations i'm sure the place is still open or at least the sign is still up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 What if a company decided to use the Jewish stereotype I mentioned earlier on their marmalade? If the marmalade tasted nice I couldn't give a monkeys what they put on it .. What next ban Shakespeare because Shylock clearly is such a sterotype ..ditto Fagin in Oliver Twist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa_Rosa Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 i was there in April although a little suprised to see them i didn't feel the need to burn the shop down or report it to the police. I wouldn't either mate, not at all. But these things will die out in time and I won't be shedding any tears when they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedvado Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Exactly santa, these things will die out like you say, zeitgeist ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa_Rosa Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 If the marmalade tasted nice I couldn't give a monkeys what they put on it .. Fair enough :shock: I for one will be leaving NaziFlakes and Fair Trade For Fascist Farmers Coffee well and truly on the shelf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa_Rosa Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 What next ban Shakespeare because Shylock clearly is such a sterotype ..ditto Fagin in Oliver Twist You really can't see the difference? IMO both Shakespeare and Dickens (although maybe not Lionel Bart) were genius's (genii?) who gave these characters flaws and traits that allowed the discerning viewer/reader to see their humanity and beyond their stereotyped characteristics. Are you suggesting Enid Blyton and Mrs Robinson managed to weave such complexities into their creations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 IMO both Shakespeare and Dickens were genius's (genii?) who gave these characters flaws and traits that allowed the discerning viewer/reader to see their humanity and beyond their stereotyped characteristics i think your doing them both a greater service than they deserve ... The Jews were persecuted even in shakespeare's & Dickens times ... but by your own posts your saying with the jew character we are able to see their humanity and beyond their stereotyped characteristics but that we couldn't see this for ourself in a golliwog character ?? I for one will be leaving NaziFlakes and Fair Trade For Fascist Farmers Coffee well and truly on the shelf. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa_Rosa Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 we couldn't see this for ourself in a golliwog character ?? Yeah, good point. I realised there was an element of contradiction in what I was saying. In fact I was about to edit when I saw your response Perhaps exposure is a key factor. The sheer abundance of Golliwogs, Black and White Minstrels etc meant that they permeated into the public consciousness more - certainly in modern times. Maybe Shylock and Fagin were the golliwogs of their day, but these days don't have the exposure that allows them to become 'dangerous' stereotypes. The more Golliwaogs exposure dies too, the more this will happen to them I guess. I don't think it's any coincidence that popular culture in the last 20 years or so doesn't have an equivalent to the Gollywog - ethnic minorities in film, tv etc are now generally represented in the same way as the majority of the populace - some idiots, some not. Can this go too far? Of course, as sent up in South Park with the 'Token' character, but surely it has got to be a good thing on the whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrogers Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 Should we also ban any literature that denotes the British, as imperialistic, upper class soldiers, or stereo typically in Pin Stripe Suits and Bowler hats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 Should we also ban any literature that denotes the British, as imperialistic, upper class soldiers, nah just ban Mel Gibson and the problem will go away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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