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ianrobo1

The return of Safe Standing Issue

Do you believe in safe standing  

22 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you believe in safe standing

    • Yes
      18
    • No
      4


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It doesn't matter what we think it isn't going to happen.

I think (and hope) that it will within the next ten years. It just makes sense for all involved.

Cheaper tickets for us supporters, an improved atmosphere and the chance for the club to receive a bigger income. There is certainly the opportunity for profit as more people could fit in, thus making more cash (even with slightly cheaper tickets).

It just makes sense...

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No, it would increase the capacity. The tickets would probably be cheaper by at least £5-10. Once again, just look at the German model to see this working.

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If we adopted the German model. What if we went 1 person to 1 seat like the Scottish model? Can you fit as many of these standing seats in as normal seats?

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Just read this headline from The Daily Star...

Arsenal could follow Aston Villa's plan to introduce a safe seating area at Villa Park by copying the scheme at the Emirates.

I know Villa can be a bit rowdy but where is the safe seating area? :lol:

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from looking at that picture, with seating still in place as such, its not going to create that much more space for more people, not only that, but even if villa could even fill it, which is still unlikely, then why would anybody want to be cramped up and squashed amongst other people? i certainly dont want people bumping into me and nudging me when ive paid to watch a came in reasonable comfort at the stadium

villa cant even fill what we got, despite the north stand at some point needing redevelopment (no matter how much paint you slap on it its still going to look like a tower block) so a standing area with potentially more area, ha, no chance

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Why would anyone oppose this?

Even if you dont want it specifically there is no obligation for you to ever use it but for those of us that want to stand its great.

For me the experience of standing on the Holte carried far more authenticity than I've ever had from sitting at any stadium.

To not support is personal preference, to oppose it is childish.

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i certainly dont want people bumping into me and nudging me when ive paid to watch a came in reasonable comfort at the stadium

then you'd sit in a seat and not the standing end surely ?

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Why do people think it would bring cheaper seats? its still going to be one allocated space per person. The german model is cheaper because, well its cheaper to watch football in Germany.

I cant see the incentive to make it cheaper, safe standing wont necessarily bring new fans, it will simply move them from one seat to another. Make a safe standing area for 5000 and you probably lose 5000 fans from the Holte which isnt selling out anyway. From the clubs point of view, is it not better to have those 5000 fans paying £30-£35 rather than £20-£25?

Maybe im getting cynical but personally i dont think this is anything more than positive PR for the club. They know the fans will like that they've tried, they know the FA and others will probably not allow it.

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....For c 10,000 fans the new standing area is in their local pub.

..and I think it's some of these that they're hoping standing will lure back.

I think the lead from this is coming from Scotland where I think they're a bit further along in what they're doing and technically since the English own Scotland and all the Scotch that live there, that means the same legislative bodies are showing a willingness to change.

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Why do people think it would bring cheaper seats? its still going to be one allocated space per person. The german model is cheaper because, well its cheaper to watch football in Germany.

I cant see the incentive to make it cheaper, safe standing wont necessarily bring new fans, it will simply move them from one seat to another. Make a safe standing area for 5000 and you probably lose 5000 fans from the Holte which isnt selling out anyway. From the clubs point of view, is it not better to have those 5000 fans paying £30-£35 rather than £20-£25?

Maybe im getting cynical but personally i dont think this is anything more than positive PR for the club. They know the fans will like that they've tried, they know the FA and others will probably not allow it.

no the German model is not allocated one space per person. it works out at 1.5 people per space. borussia dortmunds ground holds 80000 with terracing but reduces to 64000 for champions league games. I reckon if they bought standing back it would cost u about £15 to stand at villa and if they opened up the lower holte and lower north to standing i reckon you could get an extra 6000 people in villa park.

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Why do people think it would bring cheaper seats? its still going to be one allocated space per person. The german model is cheaper because, well its cheaper to watch football in Germany.

I cant see the incentive to make it cheaper, safe standing wont necessarily bring new fans, it will simply move them from one seat to another. Make a safe standing area for 5000 and you probably lose 5000 fans from the Holte which isnt selling out anyway. From the clubs point of view, is it not better to have those 5000 fans paying £30-£35 rather than £20-£25?

Maybe im getting cynical but personally i dont think this is anything more than positive PR for the club. They know the fans will like that they've tried, they know the FA and others will probably not allow it.

no the German model is not allocated one space per person. it works out at 1.5 people per space. borussia dortmunds ground holds 80000 with terracing but reduces to 64000 for champions league games. I reckon if they bought standing back it would cost u about £15 to stand at villa and if they opened up the lower holte and lower north to standing i reckon you could get an extra 6000 people in villa park.

That makes no sense. Our average ticket price is probably about £30, lower holte holds about 8000? £30 x 8000 = £240000. Make the lower holte terracing and allow in 50% more people = 12000, times that by your £15 = £180000. Club loses £60000 on match days.

Come on people do the maths. If this is cheaper, your talking £5 at the most. FWIW I dont believe in our health and safety conscious society we will be allowed 1.5 people for every seat.

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Standing fan per seated fan ratios aside, I can see an advantage of attracting groups of people who can decide to go to the match on the day, turn up and stand in their group together. I remember those days fondly! :D

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Anymore news on this? It all seems to have gone a bit quiet. Although maybe that's only to be expected as it wasn't going to be introduced this summer anyways. Just curious as I've heard some West Ham ST holders have had letters sent to them saying that CCTV footage in the ground shows that they are persistant standers and must stop doing it...our name was banded about a bit in regard to this story, in a 'if they can trial it, why not us?' manner.

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There is a section of the Lower Holte on the left hand side as you look directly at it, that stands for the whole of the game. This means they are constantly clapping, singing and chanting - improving the atmosphere. It's seen at away games we constantly stand - it creates a better atmosphere for singing and chanting. Funnily enough over the speakers at Liverpool we were told to sit down and we laughed it off. I can only imagine even however small that section is, if they are classed as Holte Enders they will create an atmosphere, hopefully!

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Funnily enough over the speakers at Liverpool we were told to sit down and we laughed it off

Haha yeh, now I havent been to hundreds of away matches by any means, but I'd never heard that before. Not telling the WHOLE set of away fans to sit down, although the 'excuse' they used, of being for the kids' sake, did ring kind of true, as there were alot more kids at that game than I had seen at any other away game for a good while. Maybe it was just where I was sitting though, dunno.

Was also very telling how often they had to announce over the PA that Liverpool FC was anti-racism/homophobia/sexism/etc though...in a likewise fashion, I can only presume they've been in trouble for persistant standers sometime this year

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Funnily enough over the speakers at Liverpool we were told to sit down and we laughed it off

although the 'excuse' they used, of being for the kids' sake, did ring kind of true, as there were alot more kids at that game than I had seen at any other away game for a good while. Maybe it was just where I was sitting though, dunno.

Was also very telling how often they had to announce over the PA that Liverpool FC was anti-racism/homophobia/sexism/etc though...in a likewise fashion, I can only presume they've been in trouble for persistant standers sometime this year

Yea there was a young lad infront of me with his parents who had to stand on the seat - thats the whole point of away games surely though - thats why i love them so much, it creates such a better atmosphere! Every away game i've been to we've stood from the first minute to the 90th (with the exception of half time). Strangely though, I was watching the highlights between Tottenham and Norwich the other day and spotted the Norwich fans sitting down and standing up when the players forged an attack. Possibly we are one of the few that constantly stand?

Dad and I were laughing at the anti-racism statement they decided to announce at half time. Makes you wonder doesn't it ;)

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People stand all over the Country both home and away fans, we are only picked on because of some over zealous anti Villa fan at Birmingham City Council Environmental Health - those of you who pay your Counci ltax to them should complain - they are now duty bound to follow their publics lead in what they enforce.

As for standing at Vp - and the fact that it would mean being all to be next to others who want to sing rather than moan, for example, it is probably the one thing that would get me back in the Ground, so a definite yes.

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I saw this on the internet. http://www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safestanding.php

Safe Standing campaign

The FSF believes that football supporters should have the choice to stand in a Safe Standing area, if they so wish. Stadiums would retain seated accommodation for those who wished to sit. It is clear that many supporters have a strong desire to stand.

If you agree, sign the FSF's petition here.

Every week, thousands of people stand in front of their seats for the duration of the game. Attempts to remove this practice have largely failed. As a result, many who would like to sit down find their view blocked and are forced to stand. The FSF campaign for Safe Standing is as much about protecting the freedoms of those who wish to sit as those who wish to stand. By segregating the two groups, everyone benefits. This is why polls have consistently shown a clear majority supporting the choice to stand, even among those who prefer to sit.

We regularly hear stories about people being ejected for persistent standing in seated areas, a practice that can create public order problems. By providing a Safe Standing area for supporters who wish to stand, the problem largely goes away.

In England and Wales, standing is permitted at rugby union and rugby league venues, at speedway, horse-racing and rock/pop concerts within football stadiums. It is allowed at football grounds outside the top two divisions, subject to the stringent standards laid down in the Government’s Green Guide. The FSF is not proposing to abolish or weaken these standards.

We are not suggesting that the government should force clubs in the top divisions to provide Safe Standing areas - only that they should be able to do so. Issues around cost and feasibility should be a matter for individual clubs, not for government.

The legislation around standing derives from the Football Spectators Act, under which the Secretary of State has the power to insist that certain grounds are all-seated. Initially, all Football League stadia were to be included; this was amended to include just the top two divisions. A similar amendment to allow standing in the Premiership and Championship would likewise not need a new Act of Parliament.

In August 2010, Morecambe FC will move into a new stadium that includes safe standing areas. If they are subsequently promoted to the Championship, they would be forced to seat the whole stadium. The idea that the safety of a ground depends on the quality of football played on the pitch is absurd. The ban on standing areas in the Premiership and Championship is an anomaly that the FSF would like to see removed.

Safe Standing is permitted at domestic matches in many European countries. Some of Europe’s most modern stadia, such as the Veltins Arena in Gelsenkirchen, Germany (used during the 2006 World Cup) and the Tivoli Stadium in Innsbruck, Austria (used during Euro 2008), feature standing accommodation for domestic fixtures.

UEFA regulations state that European competitions must be played in all-seated stadiums. In modern stadia such as the Veltins Arena and Tivoli Stadium, standing areas are easily convertible to and from seating, so this is not an obstacle to clubs providing standing accommodation for domestic matches. In both England and abroad, ticket prices for standing areas are typically lower than in seated areas, making the stadiums more socially inclusive.

145 MP’s signed an Early Day Motion (EDM 101) calling for a reopening of the debate on Safe Standing. This includes MPs from across the political spectrum, namely the Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrat, Plaid Cymru, Democratic Unionist and Social Democratic Parties. We were further delighted when support for Safe Standing became official party policy of the Liberal Democrats, following a debate at the 2008 party conference.

The Safe Standing campaign encompasses many different areas, both in terms of club specific issues and national ones. If you have any ideas, or are able to assist, please get in touch. The FSF can provide support in getting local campaigns up and running, be it through the provision of materials (banners, leaflets, publicity, etc) or general advice on Safe Standing related matters.

FSF members are also in the process of writing a number of detailed information sheets on different aspects of Safe Standing. Read them below:

Read the aims and objectives of the FSF's Safe Standing campaign here.

Click here to read the FSF's Legalities of Standing.

See some of the Key Designs used in European Safe Standing areas here.

If you would like to get involved email Peter Daykin who is leading the FSF's Safe Standing campaign.

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