Jump to content

England's troubled Champions League record


Marka Ragnos

Recommended Posts

 

 

The poor standard of the Premier League is finally starting to catch up with the top teams. The football is rubbish in England and the PL is rubbish. There's only so long you can play 30/38 games a season against garbage without it having some effect on you

 

You obviously don't watch Seria  or La Liga.

 

I watch La Liga, and the worst teams are infinitely better at football than most teams in the Prem

 

 

Theres some crap at the bottom of la liga too. Cordoba for a start. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

at moment I would say Aguero, Silva, Matic, Hazard, De Gea and Sanchez be the only players around the world class bracket in their positions playing in the league

I think if youre including sanchez in the world class bracket it probably means that the top 10-15 players in that position is world class. If that is the case i would definitely include koscielny. who is probably the best CB in the league.

He has to be the most under rated defender by fans in the prem. Im pretty sure its because "arsenal ultra high line + slow cb (per mert.) + fullbacks highup pitch + lack of CDM support = arsneal defence is bad therefore Kos isnt that great". But that should make him look even better as arsenal do tend to not ship that many goals in, especially for the style they play. He has to constantly cover for the poor positional sense and slowness of mertesacker. He is awesome at what he does, quick of the ground for a cb, hes very aggresive and stops so many counters by beating the target striker first to the ball (which shown against 2nd leg Monaco) and is good ball playing defender. Very rarely do you see G.Nev moaning about Kos on MNF. Its constantly mertesacker this, mertesacker that or lack of arsenal defensive shape as a team (although this has improved a ton this season)

I think if you put "world class" prime JT  in arsenal style of play he would get exposed so much. However, if you asked me if i would prefer prime JT or Kos in a tony pulis team, i would think JT edges it. But if you ask me prime JT or koscielny for super elite teams like Barcelona or BM who play super high line + High press, i dont think its even close and koscielny would be the clear winner.

A bit tl'dr post and bit OT but i know many people will probably disagree with koscielny being world class (and theres a reason why hes been linked with barca recently).

Edited by gharperr
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Cut the number of teams in the Premier League, ditch the league cup and have a winter break. Problem sorted, oh and do what other countries do and allow teams to move fixtures before and after big European games.

Not sure if serious.

 

100% serious

 

 

 

Really?  You'd **** over domestic football forever in a knee jerk reaction to the super rich English clubs (who could't care less about who they shit on) having a couple of below par seasons?    Was not having a winter break a problem when we had 8 finalists in 8 years?  Same question for the league cup and the 20 team Premier League.   

 

I genuinely think your opinion is one of the most stupid things I've ever read on this website,  and I've read most of what GlastonSpur posted. 

 

And presumably the tours of Asia and North America that would fill up any winter break for most of the league are going to help this imagined problem as well. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

thats the thing. ON German winter break Bayern played in Saudi Arabia, dont know how that helps the players unless they are expecting the Champions League conditions to be like January in Riyadh

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again for this I believe it goes in cycles but it isn't good enough that twice in three seasons England haven't even had a team make quarter finals.

 

That said I think England had a team in the CL final every year from 2005-12 bar 2010 which was a lean year and a few of those seasons featured three English teams in the semis so that was the dominance era and it will take a while to get back to that.

 

Look at the teams back then and you'll see why. Man. United had Rio, Vidic, Evra, Rooney, Ronaldo. Chelsea had Terry, Carvalho, Essien, Lampard, Ballack, Drogba. Liverpool had Carragher, Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard, Torres.

 

Now the difference to me back then is all those teams had a brilliant defensive structure and knew how to keep clean sheets home and away.

 

English teams are too easy to score against nowadays which kills you in the knock outs. Arsenal speak for themselves, Man. City always look like they'll concede hatfuls whenever they face anyone above pub team level in the CL and even a Mourinho coached team couldn't defend two corner kicks against 10 men.

 

It just shows the Premier league can have all the money in the world but there isn't an endless amount of world class players to sign, not all of them will want to play in England for a start.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anecdotally I would speculate that though Premier League doesnt have the quality it is much more competitive than the Spanish or German leagues.

 

This probably has an effect as teams try to juggle squads (fitness, form etc) coming into the crunch period of the season.

 

I see this mentioned a lot, obviously I'm not going to argue against the Bundesliga but La Liga I would.

 

At the end of the season the PL winners will probably be Chelsea on around 90 points. The winner of La Liga will probably claim that amount.

 

Looking at the bottom 3 points tallies for both leagues ,they're pretty similar. So where is the most competitive element. If we're saying Barca or Real Madrid win games 4 or 5-0, then what about Chelsea when they go to Swansea and win 5-0, Man. City when they beat Newcastle 5-0 without getting out of third gear?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

all the top leagues are one sided, its main reason football is shit when its impossible for teams to win a league and when they do manage to break through the top teams rip them apart like Dortmund

 

 

Its why I fear for Lyon next season if somehow manage to win Ligue 1

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't need to be a rocket scientist really.

Man United are in transition post Ferguson. Arsenal aren't but should be. Manchester City need to learn how to beat these big teams still (and lack a world class manager and a motivated squad). Chelsea were a surprise, really flat, but shit does happen you know. In a knockout tournament it only takes one bad night and you are done. Also if you want to talk World Class players - Terry, Matic, Hazard.

Basically, I disagree that this thread should even exist. There is no question to be answered.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

all the money in the world and Premier LEague still cant attract the stars and never been able to. Can pay as many mediocre players 80k a week you want but how many world class players in their prime has the league been able to attract

Ballack, Shevchenko maybe Veron and Crespo. The rest either turned up as youngsters, past their prime or while still in development or failed at other European clubs

Ozil and Di Maria surely fit into this category which ever way you spin it.

And this sort of argument doesn't explain well why the Premier League was absolutely dominant in that 2008-2011 period at Champions League level.

Teves, Falcao, RVP, Suarez, Torres, Yaya Toure, Aguero, Diego Costa......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tevez, RVP, Suarez, Torres were unproven at top level same with Aguero. Diego Costa had one good season and also unproven at top level. Falcao had a damaged knee and people feared he would get back to same level again

 

as for Yaya Toure give me a break, furthest thing from world class in champions league ive seen

Link to comment
Share on other sites

England have only had 3 quarter finals teams since 2011/12, i would have to disagree

 

Yes I agree there are questions to be answered. We can argue as much as we like about Pellegrini's merits but the fact is Barcelona have better footballers. Chelsea have one world class player in my view, Hazard and he can't do it alone. Costa has been poor lately. 

 

It doesn't get any better when you look at the way Everton were cut apart last night at Kiev, so now our good sides cant compete against the best Ukraine sides. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tevez, RVP, Suarez, Torres were unproven at top level same with Aguero. Diego Costa had one good season and also unproven at top level. Falcao had a damaged knee and people feared he would get back to same level again

 

as for Yaya Toure give me a break, furthest thing from world class in champions league ive seen

 

I don't think Toure is  the player he was but he has been Man Citys best player for a few years, with the exception of Aguero. World class no. Neither is Silva really. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't need to be a rocket scientist really.

Man United are in transition post Ferguson. Arsenal aren't but should be. Manchester City need to learn how to beat these big teams still (and lack a world class manager and a motivated squad). Chelsea were a surprise, really flat, but shit does happen you know. In a knockout tournament it only takes one bad night and you are done. Also if you want to talk World Class players - Terry, Matic, Hazard.

Basically, I disagree that this thread should even exist. There is no question to be answered.

 

And thus the Gordian knot is sliced asunder. Fair enough, but I wasn't sure quite what you meant re: Arsenal. They should be alive, or they should be in transition? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like it when English teams go out early in the Champions League. I hate 'the top 4'.

 

and me, always have done, i dont understand the mentality that people want other english clubs to do well in europe, i want villa to do well in europe, thats it, the champions league is what, £30m for turning up in the group stage + £10m per round after that + £10m if you win it, so roughly £80m if you win it, thats £80m to spend improving their team and pulling even further away from villa, why would you want that?

 

then you add in the increased match day revenue, sponsorship revenue, quality of player you can attract (and keep) 

 

and FFP just makes all of that worse

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tevez, RVP, Suarez, Torres were unproven at top level same with Aguero. Diego Costa had one good season and also unproven at top level. Falcao had a damaged knee and people feared he would get back to same level again

as for Yaya Toure give me a break, furthest thing from world class in champions league ive seen

How are you defining top level? is a player only a top player if they are signed directly from a rival champions league team? Only Barca, Real and Bayern probably have the power to nick a player from a top 4 Prem Club.

Have a break, Yaya has been World Class for the previous 3 seasons guiding Citeh to 2 titles

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Tevez, RVP, Suarez, Torres were unproven at top level same with Aguero. Diego Costa had one good season and also unproven at top level. Falcao had a damaged knee and people feared he would get back to same level again

as for Yaya Toure give me a break, furthest thing from world class in champions league ive seen

How are you defining top level? is a player only a top player if they are signed directly from a rival champions league team? Only Barca, Real and Bayern probably have the power to nick a player from a top 4 Prem Club.

Have a break, Yaya has been World Class for the previous 3 seasons guiding Citeh to 2 titles

 

 

yaya's league form has been world class for the previous 3 seasons, his work work rate is being shown up in the CL, listening to jamie redknapp pre match the other night, obsessed with his strength and how rakitic wasnt going to able to bully him off the ball, apparently not realising that the rest of the world stopped bullying people off the ball about 30 years a go

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Cut the number of teams in the Premier League, ditch the league cup and have a winter break. Problem sorted, oh and do what other countries do and allow teams to move fixtures before and after big European games.

Not sure if serious.

 

100% serious

 

 

 

Really?  You'd **** over domestic football forever in a knee jerk reaction to the super rich English clubs (who could't care less about who they shit on) having a couple of below par seasons?    Was not having a winter break a problem when we had 8 finalists in 8 years?  Same question for the league cup and the 20 team Premier League.   

 

I genuinely think your opinion is one of the most stupid things I've ever read on this website,  and I've read most of what GlastonSpur posted. 

 

 

 

It is right up there.

Sack off the league cup, our trip to Wembley, some great nights under the floodlights so we can watch Man City get a round further in the CL.

**** Man City, **** Chelsea, **** Arsenal, **** Man United, **** Liverpool and **** Tottenham.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...
Â