VillaToff Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Patience Johnny boy. If not for the eloquence of your post I would have assumed Paul had written such a 'glass half full' afair. BTW. Are you both renewing or not ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjackson Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Great article, well balanced! I'm content to wait until the window closes before I make my judgments, although I would have liked to see some quality in by now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OklahomaVilla Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Rubbish article. I tend to agree.... How many of these types of panic stricken posts were there in January? As someone else said earlier, if we haven't signed anyone by the first game of the season then I think people will have cause to have a mumble, until then let's just wait and see....go water the garden, relax and enjoy the summer! The type of players we are supposedly now going for are going to be harder to get just because they will cost more and in most cases the selling club will not want to lose. Why should Spurs sell Defoe to us? Why would West Ham sell NRC for anything less than the figure they want for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent_Bob Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 The type of players we are supposedly now going for are going to be harder to get just because they will cost more and in most cases the selling club will not want to lose. Why should Spurs sell Defoe to us? Why would West Ham sell NRC for anything less than the figure they want for him? Because Defoe won't be happy being 4th choice striker. So it's better to cash in, rather than having an unhappy £10m player that will walk away for nothing in a couple of years if they force him to stay. West Ham and NRC is a similar case. NRC has requested a transfer, so they have to let him go. And West Ham want far to much for him. It's not just us that won't pay it, it's everyone else as well. At least it seems that way at the moment. So why should we pay more than his real value? West Hams options are to pay him his wages for another year, keep an unhappy player at the club, and then sell him at a lower price next summer, as he is entering the final year of his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 And I reserve the right to think that those who panic so are off their heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCresswell Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 Is there not a difference between being disapointed and panicking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Surely the point is (1) we're after top quality, yet we're not perceived as top quality - hence players may n't be jumping straight in, and (2) it's known we need to spend and have the money, so clubs will be holding out for the maximum. Problem 1 requires varied targets (and it wouldn't suprise me if the Club were responsible for floating some names to try and flush others out), and varied targets means not necessarily buying 2nd or 3rd choice, but keeping two or three pots boiling for each position. Problem 2 requires a poker like stance, waiting till the last day if need be. So whilst like others I can't wait to see what happens, I don't share the sense of disappointment, and certainly not the quite ridiculous panic expressed by some. I also agree that 6 players may be more than we need - with Sorenson fit all year I believe we'd have made 6th, and 4 only joined over half way through. Also, if we're after quality, we need to be offering 1st team football, we're not a Man U who players will join to sit on the bench, and I would imagine that takes some doing if we buy 6 quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDish Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 and I really hope the optimists here slag off the frustrated people when we see the result of the transfer window. Any 'slagging' off for someone having an opinion will be banned from this website :oops: :oops: :oops: That was my quote, and I honestly missed out on an important word "don't" should been in the sentence. and I really DON'T hope the optimists here slag off the frustrated people when we see the result of the transfer window. That was what I should have written. Maybe a freudian slip? But tbh if you see the sentence in the context of what I wrote in the post, I hope you see what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I don't think it's particularly a panic at all to be fair. Certainly not like some of the stuff in January or on the messageboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Its all down to the manager isnt it? This next season he has to get us into Europe, either with the players he has today, or with the players he has on September 1st. Whatever, he has to get us into Europe, or he will have failed. if he feels that he can get us into Europe with just three or four signings well, I'll disagree with him, but ultimately its not my job, its his job, he is 100% in control of the situation, and it is his reputation that rests on these decisions. I would go so far as to say that next season makes or breaks him in the game as a top manager. So far he has demonstrated potential, well, now he is at a club where the board will give him no interference, where the board will ultimately back his judgement and provide the funds for him to get the players he feels he needs. Now its up to him. So really, as supporters, there isn't alot that we can do. I guess that most of us are happy to have him as the gaffer, there isn't alot we can do other than to sit back and let him get on with his job as he sees fit. If he gets it wrong, and next season doesnt go according to plan, well, its his head on the block, so I kind of understand his caution in many ways, although, as I said the other day I'm a little surprised that we havent signed anyone yet. Its actually kind of intriguing isnt it? The interview he gave a couple of weeks ago where he sounded massively confident about signings, cocky really, almost as if he was saying "just you wait and see what I've got in the works" I think its great, but then again, I was alive for all of both Ellis tenures at the club, and having a manager totally free to do his job is still something of a novelty for me :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Good to see you back PB, good post as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 3, 2007 Moderator Share Posted July 3, 2007 I think it's possible for non-qualification for Europe to not be considered failure in the coming season. (Which is a debate for another thread.) I don't see panic in the original post, I see some concern, which I suspect is probably mirrored at VP, I'm sure all concerned would be happier sitting with the summers business already tied up. It's not, but I suspect we'll all be satisfied soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 My slant on things is similar to yours John, but what we don't know is what MON slant is on it all.... and he can't really reveal that even if he wanted to. Martin O'Neill has made his position clear on transfer timing, that he does not like doing business in January..... assuming the summer break is his ideal time, I have every confidence he will bring home the bacon..... top signings I am not so sure just yet. My suspicion is we are looking at players right now who are equally looking a little above us and they are therefore waiting to see who comes in for them.When they realise the the top clubs don't necessarily want them only then will they make themselves available to us.This IMO will go on for a few years an if we progress it will get a little easier. But remember this how long has Barcelons been after Thierry Henry, and how long has Man Utd been after Owen Hargreaves. It isn't always that easy to get who you want, when you want and I'm sure if we all knew the shennanigans that went on behind the scenes ( and I'm only summising)we may have more sympathy for those that have the responsibilty of it all. I feel sure the villa people are as much anxious as us to secure those impressive signings we all crave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeMoore Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 This next season he has to get us into Europe, either with the players he has today, or with the players he has on September 1st. Whatever, he has to get us into Europe, or he will have failed Not sure i agree with that. really he has only had two transfer windows at the club, i'd be happy as long as we continue to see an improvement and we are challengeing for a european place throughout the season. If we miss out on one then i'll be dissapointed but i won't consider the season a failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ped Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Apologies for my not too constructive post. I was in a major rush. However the post wound me up beyond belief. To me it is so ill informed, and to make a comment, to paraphrase, 'its worse to not spend the money we have as not to have any at all' is just insane! The board are in no way going to be swayed or pushed into anything by the feelings of what in the grand scheme of things a small time section of AVFC fans. We all know that the money is there and anybody who thinks that it not going to be spent is way off the mark, however to doubt that it will happen at all is so short sighted. Yes pre season is nearing but in all honesty the main reason is that without a signing, these boards are struggling for discussion so we are all reading or commenting on inane rubbish. In the time before the net, and i'm casting my mind back to the time we were in for Draper as an example, if there was nothing in that days paper you had to wait until the next day.(Unless you were happy to chance your arm on Clubcall!) I personally dont comment so often but read regularly and particulary am pleased that the General has chosen to keep fans up to date on this site, that I feel is a good platform. However recently I have been embarassed at the responses that the General has had to post. A man of his standing, eloquance and with his insight into business accumen must think that it is such a chore churning out replies to what are rambles not much short of drivel. (and thats not all posts. Some are really valid ideas/comments that I feelthe club will value). However I know if I was the general or another person at B6 with some clout, I would be in two minds if it was wise to carry on with this interaction with fans. Who come the Liverpool gamehonestly believes that we will have no new personnelon board? If it hasnt happened yet, who knows the circumstances as to why??? Certainly not the source behind the front page article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 This next season he has to get us into Europe, either with the players he has today, or with the players he has on September 1st. Whatever, he has to get us into Europe, or he will have failed ..... I would go so far as to say that next season makes or breaks him in the game as a top manager. Not sure i agree with that. really he has only had two transfer windows at the club, i'd be happy as long as we continue to see an improvement and we are challengeing for a european place throughout the season. If we miss out on one then i'll be dissapointed but i won't consider the season a failure i think you're going to unneccessary extremes here Pete. he's had 1 season with us so far, in fact not even a calendar year yet, and yet this coming season he MUST get us into Europe? He's doing a rebuilding job, and whilst Europe is the aim, I hardly think say a 7th/8th placed finish would "break him asa a top manager". How long didi it take Ferguson at Utd to whil them into shape. 4 years or so? I think MOn will get us into genuine contenders quicker than that, and i think we may well be pushing for Europe this coming season. But to view anyhting less as a dismal failure seems unneccesarily harsh IMO. We must not forget the position we were in just 1 year ago, before MON took over. I;m not going to be calling for MON's head if we finish 7th this year. Or even 8th. I wouldn't be overly happy, but i don't think that sort of finish would be the end of MON or would be a complete disaster. FWIW, i think we'll get 3 or 4 big signings in, and finish well up the league. But fans of many of the top sides feel exactly the same, so ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Yes pre season is nearing but in all honesty the main reason is that without a signing, these boards are struggling for discussion so we are all reading or commenting on inane rubbish. much better ped. a very valid point too. summer/close season/pre season are a nightmare for message boards for this very reason. No "football" to talk about, so people write speculative stuff and scaremongering increase no end. "We're all doomed" it seems to me at this moment is a common theme. tomorrow, if we sign someone, we're probably going to win the league! :shock: :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Is there not a difference between being disapointed and panicking? Well you would think so. But the way it is being expressed on here it very much is panicking and negativity. I mean people tend to believe whatever they want that suits their argument. Some of us say look at the players we are in for. They will take us forward. Then thosse who apparently wish to be negative retort with "But there is no firm evidence that we are in for those, we haven't signed anyone yet and it's all bad" etc etc etc Yet they are the same people who jump on rumours of Koumas, Robinson, Harewood and use those rumours as yet another stick with which to beat the club/manager. Sorry but you cannot have it both ways, yet those who are , apparently, so negative seem to be looking at any excuse to criticise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokingzen Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 At the end of the day we have had 5 players go out and only 1 come in and we are already several days into pre-season training. I'm sure that if you asked MoN or any of the other coaching staff if this was an ideal situation they would tell you no, they would rather have the players tied up by now so that they could come in and work together with the rest of the squad so that they can gel before the start of the season. As such i'm sure they would say they are disapointed so far in our progress in signing players, that it would obviously be better to get them sooner rather than later, yet nobody is panicking. I think all those that are slating people who express this disapointment are really mising the point then, it is obviously better that we get players early than late, ideally we don't want to be blooding people in to the team in the days before the season, we want to hit the season rolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 At the end of the day we have had 5 players go out and only 1 come in and we are already several days into pre-season training. I'm sure that if you asked MoN or any of the other coaching staff if this was an ideal situation they would tell you no, they would rather have the players tied up by now so that they could come in and work together with the rest of the squad so that they can gel before the start of the season. As such i'm sure they would say they are disapointed so far in our progress in signing players, that it would obviously be better to get them sooner rather than later, yet nobody is panicking. I think all those that are slating people who express this disapointment are really mising the point then, it is obviously better that we get players early than late, ideally we don't want to be blooding people in to the team in the days before the season, we want to hit the season rolling. Good first post smokin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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