maqroll Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Might as well call it what it is. Seems Uncle Sam is on war footing- this was taken yesterday in Estonia right on the Russian border: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Ukraine is basically already over and it will end up losing about a third of its territory and most of its heavy industry in the end. What remains (mostly peasants and muddy fields) will probably join NATO, but Vlad will have his buffer zone. The Europeans simply aren't prepared to die in a ditch over Ukraine, Russia will - and arguably is. As for the photo above I don't think Russia will openly go for the Baltic States for the simple reason it would cause a direct confrontation with parts of the West. The US is prepared to fight to uphold Article 5 of the NATO Treaty (an attack on one is an attack on all). UK will also uphold its commitments if it really has to as will the Poles, but as for the rest of Europe, particularly Germany, I'm not so sure. Russia might test the boundaries with some unconventional action in the Baltics, but a sufficiently robust internal response will send the appropriate signals. Europe took it for granted at the end of the Cold War that any conventional threat to the continent was inconceivable and cut their armed forces accordingly. In consequence it would now take years to bring most NATO members up to strength to participate in an actual war, as opposed to peace keeping. UK has been equally guilty of this wishful thinking as even a cursory glance at the RAF or Royal Navy will illustrate. I don't think a general war with Russia is at all likely as things stand, but this should serve as a wake up call that the world isn't quite as pink and fluffy as many would wish it to be. Ultimately European countries must have both the will and the ability to fight for what they believe in, because in historical terms liberal democracy is still a blip, not the norm. As a wise man once said, "speak softly and carry a big stick." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Im still wondering why theres no information been released about what was on the blackbox of the plane that was shot down. Russia were blamed by the U.S in typical fashion with no evidence. I dont understand why the U.S, UK and Nato (which is controlled by the US anyway) are desperatley trying to interfere in the current conflict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Im still wondering why theres no information been released about what was on the blackbox of the plane that was shot down. Russia were blamed by the U.S in typical fashion with no evidence. I dont understand why the U.S, UK and Nato (which is controlled by the US anyway) are desperatley trying to interfere in the current conflict I think you're mixing up Germany and the US Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGabbana Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Im still wondering why theres no information been released about what was on the blackbox of the plane that was shot down. Russia were blamed by the U.S in typical fashion with no evidence. I dont understand why the U.S, UK and Nato (which is controlled by the US anyway) are desperatley trying to interfere in the current conflict I think you're mixing up Germany and the US I seem to recall the U.S immediatley blaming Russia for shooting down the plane more or less straight away with no proof. You mean Germany run NATO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator OutByEaster? Posted February 25, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 25, 2015 It's interesting that people see this as Russia invading Ukraine as opposed to Russia resisting NATO expansion into Ukraine. We've continued to do exactly what we told Gorbachev we wouldn't do when he gave us East Germany, which is push NATO further and further east. It's a dangerous game of brinkmanship I think to push Russia to the edge of a war. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 It's interesting that people see this as Russia invading Ukraine as opposed to Russia resisting NATO expansion into Ukraine. We've continued to do exactly what we told Gorbachev we wouldn't do when he gave us East Germany, which is push NATO further and further east. It's a dangerous game of brinkmanship I think to push Russia to the edge of a war. Interesting. Has Nato annexed a part of a sovereign country? Russia currently don't have the financial power to engage in an out and out war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishVillan Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Russia currently don't have the financial power to engage in an out and out war. ...said Hitler to Napoleon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Russia have $400 billion of reserves so the country itself isn't worrying , they also built a new oil pipe in partnership with Turkey ( in your face Europe ) and have huge deals in place with China so the Saudi / US driven oil price drop isn't hurting Putin as much as was intended .. The private sector in Russia however is dangerously close to collapse with debts out of control and ever increasing due to the economic sanctions in place..... Could this see Russia moving back to state control in the long run ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Well I for one welcome our soon to be Russian overlords. Все борьба за Россию-матушку. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG_Villa_Fan Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Russia have $400 billion of reserves so the country itself isn't worrying , they also built a new oil pipe in partnership with Turkey ( in your face Europe ) and have huge deals in place with China so the Saudi / US driven oil price drop isn't hurting Putin as much as was intended .. A huge part of the $400 billion is gone already trying to keep their bank system afloat ( 17% interest on deposits in roubles lol ) and other losses due to the sanctions. The gas pipe to Turkey hasn't been built. It hasn't even started and it very likely never will because it'd cost way more than the gas it'd potentially transit. The deal with China is also on hold due to the enormous cost ( the terrain ) and falling energy prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishVillan Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 They seem more than happy to get rid of their Dollars. They are stockpiling gold instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Supporter Genie Posted February 25, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2015 I don't understand why Russia are pissing about with this. We (westerners) all seem to have a collective "lets not upset the Russians, it'll lead to world war 3"... but we see this half arsed battle with Ukraine over where they'd like the borders to be moved to. They could get this job done in days/weeks if they put their minds to it, so why aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Why would you want a 'patriotic war' that you appear to be winning and is severely testing the wit, resilience and resources of the opposition to be over quickly? Putin is remarkably popular at home, any western sanctions that do affect people will only reinforce the us against them mentality of the region. Any Russians that begin to grumble about their lot can simply be shown TV footage of the Oklahoma National Guard marching between Estonia and Latvia. I'm not supporting the Russian policy, far from it. But you can see how they might not see things the same way we do. How might the U.S. react if the Russians had a military interest and boots on the ground in, say, Cuba and Mexico? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikantcpell Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) I remember there was this popular danish politican who wanted the danish army to be replaced with an answering machine who says "we give up" in russian. Edited February 25, 2015 by Ikantcpell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator OutByEaster? Posted February 26, 2015 Moderator Share Posted February 26, 2015 Having spent $5billion dollars arranging for the coup that put the current Neo-Nazi's in place - the US will be very frustrated by Putin's reluctance to put up enough of a fight to allow them to take control of the Crimean ports. The current stand off suits the Russians more than the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VT Supporter mjmooney Posted February 26, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 26, 2015 I remember there was this popular danish politican who wanted the danish army to be replaced with an answering machine who says "we give up" in russian. The Russians would probably understand the old German one they used in 1940. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikantcpell Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I remember there was this popular danish politican who wanted the danish army to be replaced with an answering machine who says "we give up" in russian. The Russians would probably understand the old German one they used in 1940. Scandinavian leaders has always been spinless cowards especially the swedish ones.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 I remember there was this popular danish politican who wanted the danish army to be replaced with an answering machine who says "we give up" in russian. The Russians would probably understand the old German one they used in 1940. Scandinavian leaders has always been spinless cowards especially the swedish ones.. But they prevented Copenhagen, Oslo and Stockholm from looking like Warsaw. They really didn't have much of a choice against Hitler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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