VillaCas Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) I must have missed your concern between posts that told us that lambert was doing a good job. You seem so much more concerned now, which is the part i find strange when you think about how bad it was for so long. You're clearly on a mission to score points so please go ahead In seasons one and two I thought Lambert was doing a good job with the resources at his disposal, this season clearly the wheels fell off but in my opinion it was only worth replacing him with someone who was demonstrably better You are in the "literally anyone is better than Lambert" camp, and that's your perogative. Sherwood has got a bit of a free hit this season in that if we do go down it's all Lamberts fault. I think he will do ok in the short term but think the lack of experience will harm us longer term I think Sherwood is a poor appointment but he is here now and I hope that he makes me eat my words Edited February 17, 2015 by VillaCas 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 The much bigger gamble would have been to hope things would have got better under lambert. Indeed and Sherwood himself said there's some poor experienced managers out there. Well he's totally unbiased so it must be true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I must have missed your concern between posts that told us that lambert was doing a good job. You seem so much more concerned now, which is the part i find strange when you think about how bad it was for so long. You're clearly on a mission to score points so please go ahead In seasons one and two I thought Lambert was doing a good job with the resources at his disposal, this season clearly the wheels fell off but in my opinion it was only worth replacing him with someone who was demonstrably better You are in the "literally anyone is better than Lambert" and that's your perogative I think Sherwood is a poor appointment but he is here now and I hope that he makes me eat my words Not at all. I just don't get how anyone can be more concerned now than they were before, just because it's Tim Sherwood. We were heading in only one direction under Lambert. Is there still a chance we go down? Of course but there's no way we're currently in a worse position than before Lambert was sacked. We've given ourselves a chance to stay up now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I must have missed your concern between posts that told us that lambert was doing a good job. You seem so much more concerned now, which is the part i find strange when you think about how bad it was for so long. You're clearly on a mission to score points so please go ahead In seasons one and two I thought Lambert was doing a good job with the resources at his disposal, this season clearly the wheels fell off but in my opinion it was only worth replacing him with someone who was demonstrably better You are in the "literally anyone is better than Lambert" camp, and that's your perogative. Sherwood has got a bit of a free hit this season in that if we do go down it's all Lamberts fault. I think he will do ok in the short term but think the lack of experience will harm us longer term I think Sherwood is a poor appointment but he is here now and I hope that he makes me eat my words If he wins more than 2 games in his next 21 and gets the team to score more than 12 goals in the next 25 games then that's a start! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Why are people putting so much emphasis on experience. You have to start somewhere. It's not the be all and end all, football isn't as scientific as people like to think. if he was ever going to have the ability to organise a team effectively then he'll already have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponky Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Cleverley: Good God man. You want us to pass it ... ffff .....ffff ... forward? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 17, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 17, 2015 No Gilet. #sherwoodout 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I think you can easily make arguments both for and against Sherwood, but the absolute bottom line is that he will have to go a long way to do worse than Lambert. I defended Lambert to the hilt up until around November time I think, I really thought he'd be a great appointment and like many others I factored our bad results and sequences against all the off-field issues, injuries and poor player form but you cannot (and I'm not telling people what to think here as I think one thing we can all universally agree on is that this season has been the very definition of a disaster in footballing terms) offset this season's results and lack of goals against anything, there are much worse teams (on paper) in this division who have been able to hit the back of the net regularly and look like a unified team. For me, we just draw a line under the last three plus years now, forget Lambert and get behind Sherwood and the players as this is the only way we can positively influence whether or not we go down now this season. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 17, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 17, 2015 I must have missed your concern between posts that told us that lambert was doing a good job. You seem so much more concerned now, which is the part i find strange when you think about how bad it was for so long. You're clearly on a mission to score points so please go ahead In seasons one and two I thought Lambert was doing a good job with the resources at his disposal, this season clearly the wheels fell off but in my opinion it was only worth replacing him with someone who was demonstrably better You are in the "literally anyone is better than Lambert" and that's your perogative I think Sherwood is a poor appointment but he is here now and I hope that he makes me eat my words Not at all. I just don't get how anyone can be more concerned now than they were before, just because it's Tim Sherwood. We were heading in only one direction under Lambert. Is there still a chance we go down? Of course but there's no way we're currently in a worse position than before Lambert was sacked. We've given ourselves a chance to stay up now. You have absolutely no way of knowing right now for certain whether that is true, Stoke could do us 6 at the weekend followed by 6 straight heavy defeats. I personally don't see it happening, but you know we haven't just appointed Guardiola, Simeone, Mourinho or Wenger or anything have we? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I think you can easily make arguments both for and against Sherwood, but the absolute bottom line is that he will have to go a long way to do worse than Lambert. I defended Lambert to the hilt up until around November time I think, I really thought he'd be a great appointment and like many others I factored our bad results and sequences against all the off-field issues, injuries and poor player form but you cannot (and I'm not telling people what to think here as I think one thing we can all universally agree on is that this season has been the very definition of a disaster in footballing terms) offset this season's results and lack of goals against anything, there are much worse teams (on paper) in this division who have been able to hit the back of the net regularly and look like a unified team. For me, we just draw a line under the last three plus years now, forget Lambert and get behind Sherwood and the players as this is the only way we can positively influence whether or not we go down now this season. I dont think anybody will ever be as bad as Lambert, he was certainly the worst manager we have had in the last 25-30 years. You would be hard presssed to find anybody so consistently crap for so long even going back before that, he must rank as one of our worst ever in history. I agree we should get behind Sherwood and try forget the last few years entirely, I believe the club will finally turn the corner now after the McLeish and Lambert years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Why are people putting so much emphasis on experience. You have to start somewhere. It's not the be all and end all, football isn't as scientific as people like to think. if he was ever going to have the ability to organise a team effectively then he'll already have it. I think the point people are making is that we are a big enough club to attract someone with more than four months experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post P3te Posted February 17, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 17, 2015 One thing I've learned from the guts of 3 decades watching football is that you never really know what's going to work with a manager. In many cases, you go for the seasoned veteran with lots of experience and a great track record and it just doesn't work. In others you go for a leftfield appointment nobody expected and everything clicks. There are so many unknowables when it comes to management that I'd honestly never write off a manager until they've had a bit of time. Sherwood could be the worst man for the job, or he could be the best. His prior experience leads towards what he'll do, but it's not as relevant as people think. More relevant is the guy's personality, how he works with the players that are already at the squad, what he does to upset them or make them happy, what he's learned about tactics from his playing days, how receptive players are to his training methods and tactics, how well he can communicate his ideas, how willing he is to listen to player input. You don't need to be Jose Mourinho to be a successful manager. It helps at the very top level, but it's more how you interact with your players, how you get across what you're trying to do, and how suitable your ideas are to the staff available. Look at Gregory. It worked incredibly well for an abundance of reasons, but top level experience was not one of them. There are other factors at play here. A converse example is Villas Boas at both Chelsea and Spurs. For some reason, despite him being technically a very good manager, it didn't work. He couldn't get the players doing what he needed them to do for whatever reason. A world class tactician who falls out with players will be less effective than an old fashioned "stick to the basics" manager who can make his players play. Managers are looked at strangely, and I've never fully understood it. Football fans are happy enough to bring in a stop gap right back to fix a problem and then replace him a few years later, but nobody takes the same view with a manager. Some managers are great at certain things but have very obvious ceilings, MON for example. They'll get you up to a point and be unable to take you further. There's nothing wrong with that, you just need to know when to replace them. Tim Sherwood most likely isn't the man to reestablish Aston Villa as a force in English football, but he might just be the man to take us to where we need to be in 2 years time. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sne Posted February 17, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Let's not bicker and argue this is supposed to be a happy occasion Edited February 17, 2015 by sne 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I must have missed your concern between posts that told us that lambert was doing a good job. You seem so much more concerned now, which is the part i find strange when you think about how bad it was for so long. You're clearly on a mission to score points so please go ahead In seasons one and two I thought Lambert was doing a good job with the resources at his disposal, this season clearly the wheels fell off but in my opinion it was only worth replacing him with someone who was demonstrably better You are in the "literally anyone is better than Lambert" and that's your perogative I think Sherwood is a poor appointment but he is here now and I hope that he makes me eat my words Not at all. I just don't get how anyone can be more concerned now than they were before, just because it's Tim Sherwood. We were heading in only one direction under Lambert. Is there still a chance we go down? Of course but there's no way we're currently in a worse position than before Lambert was sacked. We've given ourselves a chance to stay up now. You have absolutely no way of knowing right now for certain whether that is true, Stoke could do us 6 at the weekend followed by 6 straight heavy defeats. I personally don't see it happening, but you know we haven't just appointed Guardiola, Simeone, Mourinho or Wenger or anything have we? No but then we don't have to appoint a manager like that right now. What we needed was to give us a chance and surely you don't disagree that we were heading down had lambert stayed on. It's not even about sherwood being good. If you went to villa park on the weekend you would have felt the difference in atmosphere. The more important part was getting rid of Lambert to give us the boost we need. Anything extra sherwood brings to the table is a bonus right now. I'll say it again, I don't understand how anyone could be more concerned now than before lambert was sacked. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 17, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 17, 2015 One thing I've learned from the guts of 3 decades watching football is that you never really know what's going to work with a manager. In many cases, you go for the seasoned veteran with lots of experience and a great track record and it just doesn't work. In others you go for a leftfield appointment nobody expected and everything clicks. There are so many unknowables when it comes to management that I'd honestly never write off a manager until they've had a bit of time. Sherwood could be the worst man for the job, or he could be the best. His prior experience leads towards what he'll do, but it's not as relevant as people think. More relevant is the guy's personality, how he works with the players that are already at the squad, what he does to upset them or make them happy, what he's learned about tactics from his playing days, how receptive players are to his training methods and tactics, how well he can communicate his ideas, how willing he is to listen to player input. You don't need to be Jose Mourinho to be a successful manager. It helps at the very top level, but it's more how you interact with your players, how you get across what you're trying to do, and how suitable your ideas are to the staff available. Look at Gregory. It worked incredibly well for an abundance of reasons, but top level experience was not one of them. There are other factors at play here. A converse example is Villas Boas at both Chelsea and Spurs. For some reason, despite him being technically a very good manager, it didn't work. He couldn't get the players doing what he needed them to do for whatever reason. A world class tactician who falls out with players will be less effective than an old fashioned "stick to the basics" manager who can make his players play. Managers are looked at strangely, and I've never fully understood it. Football fans are happy enough to bring in a stop gap right back to fix a problem and then replace him a few years later, but nobody takes the same view with a manager. Some managers are great at certain things but have very obvious ceilings, MON for example. They'll get you up to a point and be unable to take you further. There's nothing wrong with that, you just need to know when to replace them. Tim Sherwood most likely isn't the man to reestablish Aston Villa as a force in English football, but he might just be the man to take us to where we need to be in 2 years time. That's a great post, right now we just have no way of knowing how Sherwood will turn out, could be best manager ever, could be horrible and take us down. It'll be fun (hopefully) finding out though. I agree it's not necessary to be the next Mourinho in either case, he could just turn out to be OUR great manager who manages to take us back to where we want to be, or OUR good manager who steadies the ship and lets us leave our relegation worries behind. Then he could go on and be terrible somewhere else with a better squad. Who knows. All conjecture though at this point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 17, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted February 17, 2015 I must have missed your concern between posts that told us that lambert was doing a good job. You seem so much more concerned now, which is the part i find strange when you think about how bad it was for so long. You're clearly on a mission to score points so please go ahead In seasons one and two I thought Lambert was doing a good job with the resources at his disposal, this season clearly the wheels fell off but in my opinion it was only worth replacing him with someone who was demonstrably better You are in the "literally anyone is better than Lambert" and that's your perogative I think Sherwood is a poor appointment but he is here now and I hope that he makes me eat my words Not at all. I just don't get how anyone can be more concerned now than they were before, just because it's Tim Sherwood. We were heading in only one direction under Lambert. Is there still a chance we go down? Of course but there's no way we're currently in a worse position than before Lambert was sacked. We've given ourselves a chance to stay up now. You have absolutely no way of knowing right now for certain whether that is true, Stoke could do us 6 at the weekend followed by 6 straight heavy defeats. I personally don't see it happening, but you know we haven't just appointed Guardiola, Simeone, Mourinho or Wenger or anything have we? No but then we don't have to appoint a manager like that right now. What we needed was to give us a chance and surely you don't disagree that we were heading down had lambert stayed on. It's not even about sherwood being good. If you went to villa park on the weekend you would have felt the difference in atmosphere. The more important part was getting rid of Lambert to give us the boost we need. Anything extra sherwood brings to the table is a bonus right now. I'll say it again, I don't understand how anyone could be more concerned now than before lambert was sacked. right, I wasn't suggested we coudl or would make that kind of appointment, I'm just saying that kind of appointment might back up the sort of stuff you are saying a little better. TS has 4 months in the prem under his belt with a very, very good squad of players. That's no guarantee of anything at all, better or worse than Lambert. Re: Lambert himself, we needed to make a change as he seemed incapable of pulling off the same trick he'd pulled off in the last two seasons of getting a reaction and winning the games against the teams we really needed to beat. The mood was dire, he had no assistant and he'd had little backing. He needed to come up with something pretty dramatic and in the games since the Leicester defeat looked less and less capable of doing it. I was for his sacking. He wasn't the worst manager for 30 years, McLeish won less than one game in 5, Billy McNeill, well, we all know how that went. I think Sherwoods appointment is positive and needed to happen, don't get me wrong, just that we need to actually see who he puts out onto the pitch and how they play before comparing him to anyone at this stage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) So any idea who the bib man is? Edited February 17, 2015 by SikhInTrinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam3773 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Well, this has killed the mood.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 John Percy @John__Percy 5m5 minutes ago Tim Sherwood is set to appoint former Mark Robson as first-team coach at Aston Villa. Robson left Norwich in November #avfc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 So any idea who the bib man is? Not sure but he looks like he ate all the pies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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