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The Tim Sherwood Thread


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At the minute we have one senior defender in our back 4. Bacuna and Richardson aren't natural full backs and Okore is still learning about the Premier. If we get Hutton and Cissokho back we will be more solid but I'm happy with what im seeing. The football is the best in years. We have just had more possession than Man City which is the first time in 6 1/2 years that's happened and it wasn't the boring keep ball we saw under Lambert. I think the only stat we lost out on was the important one. Saying we have a problem with the defence isn't strictly true either as Guzans mistake and the wall capitulating is school boy stuff which I guarantee won't happen again. Saturday is a big day not just for points but also because at home our tactics haven't been as good as away and thats something we need to work on.

 

Common myth - yes the football is better than Lambert - but the 'football in the best in years'  - home defeats to stoke and swansea, a scrambled draw with QPR - none of which we played particularly well. Granted Spurs , Liverpool were good performances - but suggesting were in a rich vein of form is premature IMO.

 

 

so you preferred the glory years of Lambert or McLeish. If not then it is the best football in years

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I think you need to define "years" before you spark the debate.

It's certainly the most entertaining style I can remember since early O'Leary. O'Neill had us winning, that was the most fun I had.

Even if you take the end of Lambert's first season that was 2 years ago. Which is a long old time in football.

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Fwiw I think mons main weapon was motivation but on the evidence so far Sherwood has this AND considerable depth of thinking. I wouldn't for a minute call it gung ho and I don't think he's naive.

I think what he does do though, most importantly, is limit the tactics and the master plans to the minimum needed at any time, rather than swamp the players. I think he works on a basic front foot aggressive hard working style with 9 men defence - when defending ! - as his basic plan, drills that, picks who fits with that, and only ' fiddles' for certain objectives.

In fact in this way he most reminds me of Ron Saunders.

Get the players in the team who will play the way you want, drill the system ,instill a positive mindset, then leave it to the players.

Sounds simple but very few managers achieve it. Those that do are usually successful.

Obviously its early days but in the same way some spurs fans thought negatives after a very brief period I see positives.

If it works we could be onto a good thing. A young manager making his mark with us, rather than somebody from the merry go round.

Mind you, in a different way and for different football reasons ( the 'Dortmund' approach) I got me hopes up with lambo so I'll keep that optimism guarded for a while yet !

Edited by terrytini
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Had Sherwood been our manager all season, and he continued having us play the way we have so far under him, I'm confident we'd have been safe a while ago.

Maybe, maybe not.

 

Certainly if we'd played like we currently are playing for a whole season then we'd be mid table at worst, imo.

 

However, I think it remains to be seen if Sherwood can get that level of performance out of his teams for a whole season. He's never been tested for that period of time.

 

I think Sherwood has done excellent with us, but his success seems to be based primarily on getting individuals performing better and raising the confidence of the team. Not to say he's tactically inept, he's not, but I think his main weapon is motivation.

Which is fantastic given our position now. But keeping players motivated to that level over a long period of time is hard. In a way it's how MON used to do it and we are well used to the March slump that came with that approach.

 

I'm hopeful under Sherwood, but I do think that's his main barrier to success here. Maintaining that motivation amongst his team over a long period of time.

Granted he hasn't managed a whole season but he's had 2 halves and has done very well so far. Who knows he might be better with a preseason! All the other bits about getting players playing better isn't that just management? MON was a one trick pony with exceptional manamangement skills. If Sherwood can match that with added tactical nous we might have a gem on our hand only time will tell but so far so good!

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Fwiw I think mons main weapon was motivation but on the evidence so far Sherwood has this AND considerable depth of thinking. I wouldn't for a minute call it gung ho and I don't think he's naive.

Yeah, he also makes changes from game to game which shows he probably has more of a tactical approach to it. MON seemed to just put the same XI out every week, regardless of who we played.

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Fwiw I think mons main weapon was motivation but on the evidence so far Sherwood has this AND considerable depth of thinking. I wouldn't for a minute call it gung ho and I don't think he's naive.

Yeah, he also makes changes from game to game which shows he probably has more of a tactical approach to it. MON seemed to just put the same XI out every week, regardless of who we played.

 

MON's main tactical change was bring on Harewood and put Milner at right back.  Harewood FFS <facepalm>

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Fwiw I think mons main weapon was motivation but on the evidence so far Sherwood has this AND considerable depth of thinking. I wouldn't for a minute call it gung ho and I don't think he's naive.

Yeah, he also makes changes from game to game which shows he probably has more of a tactical approach to it. MON seemed to just put the same XI out every week, regardless of who we played.

MON's main tactical change was bring on Harewood and put Milner at right back.  Harewood FFS <facepalm>

Ha ha ha.

I had forgotten that.

What was that all about, and the 60th minute Shorey substitutions lol.

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Had Sherwood been our manager all season, and he continued having us play the way we have so far under him, I'm confident we'd have been safe a while ago.

Maybe, maybe not.

Certainly if we'd played like we currently are playing for a whole season then we'd be mid table at worst, imo.

However, I think it remains to be seen if Sherwood can get that level of performance out of his teams for a whole season. He's never been tested for that period of time.

I think Sherwood has done excellent with us, but his success seems to be based primarily on getting individuals performing better and raising the confidence of the team. Not to say he's tactically inept, he's not, but I think his main weapon is motivation.

Which is fantastic given our position now. But keeping players motivated to that level over a long period of time is hard. In a way it's how MON used to do it and we are well used to the March slump that came with that approach.

I'm hopeful under Sherwood, but I do think that's his main barrier to success here. Maintaining that motivation amongst his team over a long period of time.

Granted he hasn't managed a whole season but he's had 2 halves and has done very well so far. Who knows he might be better with a preseason! All the other bits about getting players playing better isn't that just management? MON was a one trick pony with exceptional manamangement skills. If Sherwood can match that with added tactical nous we might have a gem on our hand only time will tell but so far so good!
I don't disagree with that.

My point really was that he's only ever had the honeymoon period with a club. That few months after taking over where its relatively easy (emphasis on relatively, its never "easy") to get that jump in motivation over the previous regime and get the players playing to a higher standard.

He's not yet had to deal with the come down from that bounce and continue to motivate and set out his team to get results without that to help him.

That's not a criticism, and I'm not for one second saying he can't do it. I'm just saying I don't think he's ever needed to show that yet and that will be the true test of his managerial ability.

How many times have we seen managers have a good season, be praised as the next big thing, and then to revert back to being average or worse?

I'm hopeful that Sherwood won't be one of those, but that is the test, IMO.

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Fwiw I think mons main weapon was motivation but on the evidence so far Sherwood has this AND considerable depth of thinking. I wouldn't for a minute call it gung ho and I don't think he's naive.

Yeah, he also makes changes from game to game which shows he probably has more of a tactical approach to it. MON seemed to just put the same XI out every week, regardless of who we played.
MON's main tactical change was bring on Harewood and put Milner at right back.  Harewood FFS <facepalm>

Ha ha ha.

I had forgotten that.

What was that all about, and the 60th minute Shorey substitutions lol.

 

The best was Shorey caught on camera mouthing "w@n*#er" at MON when his number was inevitably shown after 60 mins for about the 10th game in a row.

I don't think he played again under him.

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Had Sherwood been our manager all season, and he continued having us play the way we have so far under him, I'm confident we'd have been safe a while ago.

Maybe, maybe not.

Certainly if we'd played like we currently are playing for a whole season then we'd be mid table at worst, imo.

However, I think it remains to be seen if Sherwood can get that level of performance out of his teams for a whole season. He's never been tested for that period of time.

I think Sherwood has done excellent with us, but his success seems to be based primarily on getting individuals performing better and raising the confidence of the team. Not to say he's tactically inept, he's not, but I think his main weapon is motivation.

Which is fantastic given our position now. But keeping players motivated to that level over a long period of time is hard. In a way it's how MON used to do it and we are well used to the March slump that came with that approach.

I'm hopeful under Sherwood, but I do think that's his main barrier to success here. Maintaining that motivation amongst his team over a long period of time.

Granted he hasn't managed a whole season but he's had 2 halves and has done very well so far. Who knows he might be better with a preseason! All the other bits about getting players playing better isn't that just management? MON was a one trick pony with exceptional manamangement skills. If Sherwood can match that with added tactical nous we might have a gem on our hand only time will tell but so far so good!
I don't disagree with that.

My point really was that he's only ever had the honeymoon period with a club. That few months after taking over where its relatively easy (emphasis on relatively, its never "easy") to get that jump in motivation over the previous regime and get the players playing to a higher standard.

He's not yet had to deal with the come down from that bounce and continue to motivate and set out his team to get results without that to help him.

That's not a criticism, and I'm not for one second saying he can't do it. I'm just saying I don't think he's ever needed to show that yet and that will be the true test of his managerial ability.

How many times have we seen managers have a good season, be praised as the next big thing, and then to revert back to being average or worse?

I'm hopeful that Sherwood won't be one of those, but that is the test, IMO.

I suppose that depends on how long the so called bounce lasts! Half a season is quite a long time but I agree he hasn't had the dip in form yet to challenge him but you never know he may not get one

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To say he is living off the bounce at the moment is a bit unfair, he came into a club at rock bottom, no confidence, passion, poor tactics, no unity in the fan base, it took him 2 weeks to start seeing an improvement in the team, he has got us firing, great football, goals, players smiling again, the crowd rocking, confidence through the roof, the only negative is the defense, with all the injuries we have had it is amazing we can actually field a defense. He deserves a lot more credit than he is getting, can he deliver over a season well time will tell, it depends if he is backed in the transfer market, if we keep our best players and how we do with injuries. He has totally won me over with his attitude, confidence and desire and I can not wait till next season as I dont think we will be near the bottom again.

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To say he is living off the bounce at the moment is a bit unfair, he came into a club at rock bottom, no confidence, passion, poor tactics, no unity in the fan base, it took him 2 weeks to start seeing an improvement in the team, he has got us firing, great football, goals, players smiling again, the crowd rocking, confidence through the roof, the only negative is the defense, with all the injuries we have had it is amazing we can actually field a defense. He deserves a lot more credit than he is getting, can he deliver over a season well time will tell, it depends if he is backed in the transfer market, if we keep our best players and how we do with injuries. He has totally won me over with his attitude, confidence and desire and I can not wait till next season as I dont think we will be near the bottom again.

 

Yep - he's done everything right - Damm that League Table.

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To say he is living off the bounce at the moment is a bit unfair, he came into a club at rock bottom, no confidence, passion, poor tactics, no unity in the fan base, it took him 2 weeks to start seeing an improvement in the team, he has got us firing, great football, goals, players smiling again, the crowd rocking, confidence through the roof, the only negative is the defense, with all the injuries we have had it is amazing we can actually field a defense. He deserves a lot more credit than he is getting, can he deliver over a season well time will tell, it depends if he is backed in the transfer market, if we keep our best players and how we do with injuries. He has totally won me over with his attitude, confidence and desire and I can not wait till next season as I dont think we will be near the bottom again.

I assume this was aimed at me given I referenced the bounce.

 

I wasn't not giving him credit.

 

I give him immense credit for what he's done so far. All I was saying was that once that initial confidence boost wears out, it's a whole different test for a manager, a test that I don't believe Sherwood has yet faced in his short career.

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Supposedly wants full control in the summer, the club meanwhile wanted (still want maybe) a director of football in place. Think if Lerner does stay I certainly would feel much more comfortable with a director of football in place.

To give an young unproven manager full control would be immensely stupid (and just like Villa to do)

 

It didn't work with MON, it didn't work with Lambert and i don't wan't us to risk it with Tim

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Yeah but lots of DOFs don't work too.

And which bit should someone have and which not. For example whatever his faults it is hard to argue, given the budget, with a fair bit of lambos transfers....they didn't all work but nobody's do....Sherwood is doing very well but with Lambert's team.

Yet who would have thought of Lambert as a possible for dof !...so mons transfers were on the poor side but we did OK, lambos were good but we did poor !

Sherwood is very keen on development of youth, so he is bound to want control in that area. As he isn't likely to give control on transfers to someone else I would think any dof role could be limited indeed.

Not saying I'm for or against it, just that its got ups and downs to both sides.

In the end, whatever they are called and whoever it is, the most crucial thing is that the manager has a clear way he wants to play, gets the players he thinks will do it, and implements his system throughout the club.

At a guess I would think that would be what Sherwood wants.

Edited by terrytini
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When people say total control, I think they are getting a bit carried away with themselves. It's clear that Paddy Reilly is scouting the talent, then if Sherwood likes the player we try and get him, discussions are with Tom Fox. It's not like Tim can say lets splash £10m on a left back and give him £80k a week, then turn around and do the same thing in January. He's already said he didn't like working under a DOF at Spurs so I don't see why he would want to here. As said already, Paddy Reilly will be doing a lot of what the role entails anyway.

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Dof's come in all shapes and sizes. Spurs with Baldini IMO is the wrong way where as Southampton with Les Reed seems to be the right way. Hopefully Sherwood and Reilly can look after the transfer side but I'd like someone to overview the whole football side from having a recruitment strategy for future managers to getting all the teams to play the same sort of football we are seeing now. From MON to Houllier to Mcleish and then Lambert our style of football changed time and again we need continuity that way our youth can flourish knowing when they get to the 1st team it's roughly the same style. Lambert never fancied Grealsih because he wasn't his type Sherwood plays a different style and the lad flourishes. So a DOF would have a list of managers so if Sherwood left we could get them in as they have the same footballing philosophy as the rest of the club.

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Supposedly wants full control in the summer, the club meanwhile wanted (still want maybe) a director of football in place. Think if Lerner does stay I certainly would feel much more comfortable with a director of football in place.

To give an young unproven manager full control would be immensely stupid (and just like Villa to do)

 

It didn't work with MON, it didn't work with Lambert and i don't wan't us to risk it with Tim

 

 

Absolutely. I really hope the club persist with it.

 

And also agree with the above post.

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