TrentVilla Posted February 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 14, 2017 The revisionism of Sherwood is quite astounding, not since Darren Bent was robbed of the PFA player of the year while at Villa have seen the like. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) I rarely post in threads about our recent ex managers as quite frankly I think since the days of Houllier they have all been swimming against the tide due to the incompetence of those above them. McLeish lost amongst others Freidel, Luke Young, Ash Young and Downing bringing in approx 40 mill in fees. He spent around 18 mill in replacing them. Lambert came into a club that had just about avoided relegation and was given a pittance to spend every season whilst having to reduce the wage bill. Sherwood came into a club in the bottom three, kept them up then was tasked with replacing our four best players in Vlaar, Delph, Cleverly and Benteke from a squad that had just about avoided relegation and given 50 mill to do it. A guy who had never bought or sold a player before and doing it in conflict it seems with Paddy Reilly and others. Then we come to Garde who inherited a struggling squad and was given f all to improve it. The way I see it is that McLeish’s task was keeping us up and he achieved it. Lamberts task was keeping us up on a shoe string and for two years he achieved it. Sherwoods initial task was to keep us up after joining us when we were in the bottom three and he achieved it, then rebuilding a squad that had lost its best players and building one capable of keeping us up and he failed. Gardes task was improving the form of a struggling squad and he failed. Black was never more than an interim stop gap but if he must be judged then see Garde. I don’t know how you would put them in any order as they were all ultimately hampered by Lerner which is where the buck stops. I get that some genuinely dislike one or more of them and perhaps I am fortunate when looking at them that I don’t particularly dislike any of them so I don’t have that gut wrenching pull towards giving any of them a good kicking over the other. That didn’t stop me at the time we were struggling from sticking the knife in but having had chance to reassess I see now, and have for the last year, that it would have taken a very good manager to achieve more than they did under Lerner and none of them could ever have been considered that. Once again though the fault for that lies with Lerner in appointing them. Edited February 14, 2017 by markavfc40 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 2 hours ago, TrentVilla said: The revisionism of Sherwood is quite astounding, not since Darren Bent was robbed of the PFA player of the year while at Villa have seen the like. Which season should Bent have won POTY here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 As I've said countless times I enjoyed Sherwood's car crash reign for good and bad a lot more than Lambert's which seemed to last 25 years never mind the 2.5 years he somehow lasted. So I can't bring myself to cricise him as much as others as he achieved some of our best results in the last 5 years and at least gave me hope briefly we were starting to rise again which was obviously a mirage. He at least beat Liverpool in a cup semi, Lambert couldn't beat a league 2 side over 2 legs ffs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Sherwood throwing the players under the bus on the eve of the cup final probably didn't help. Terrible management. Oh yeah, he basically said many of those players were gonna sold. I can't believe we appointed him our manager in the PL. Randy Lerner's cherry on top of a shit sandwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) I don't see any revisionism going on. People just acknowledge he gave us some fun times, and we got some great results, amidst the absolute shit we've endured over several years and continue to endure even now. We had fun and it was exciting for a short while at least. That's why I'll never consider him to be our worst manager ever. Edited February 14, 2017 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 hour ago, VillaChris said: As I've said countless times I enjoyed Sherwood's car crash reign for good and bad a lot more than Lambert's which seemed to last 25 years never mind the 2.5 years he somehow lasted. So I can't bring myself to cricise him as much as others as he achieved some of our best results in the last 5 years and at least gave me hope briefly we were starting to rise again which was obviously a mirage. He at least beat Liverpool in a cup semi, Lambert couldn't beat a league 2 side over 2 legs ffs. Agreed. The Lambert era made me hate the sport I'd loved for years. I've gone from watching it all the time to only watching villa "play" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 49 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said: I don't see any revisionism going on. People just acknowledge he gave us some fun times, and we got some great results, amidst the absolute shit we've endured over several years and continue to endure even now. We had fun and it was exciting for a short while at least. That's why I'll never consider him to be our worst manager ever. It was literally like 5 or 6 good games though Apart from the semifinal which was easily our best performance in the past 5 years, the rest were just good performances that were no better than that of some of our other managers' in that time. And they were more than cancelled out by the final and the 9 losses in 10 games after 50M spent to start the next season. It's also made worse by the fact that these shortcomings were clearly because he didn't know what the hell he was doing. It's not like a run of bad form, or that he lost the dressing room. He was literally out there pretending to be a PL manager and was actually winging it. I honestly can't see how he's not the worst of the bunch. The only one close to him is Di Matteo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted February 14, 2017 3 hours ago, VillaChris said: Which season should Bent have won POTY here? Oh dear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 6 hours ago, markavfc40 said: I rarely post in threads about our recent ex managers as quite frankly I think since the days of Houllier they have all been swimming against the tide due to the incompetence of those above them. McLeish lost amongst others Freidel, Luke Young, Ash Young and Downing bringing in approx 40 mill in fees. He spent around 18 mill in replacing them. Lambert came into a club that had just about avoided relegation and was given a pittance to spend every season whilst having to reduce the wage bill. Sherwood came into a club in the bottom three, kept them up then was tasked with replacing our four best players in Vlaar, Delph, Cleverly and Benteke from a squad that had just about avoided relegation and given 50 mill to do it. A guy who had never bought or sold a player before and doing it in conflict it seems with Paddy Reilly and others. Then we come to Garde who inherited a struggling squad and was given f all to improve it. The way I see it is that McLeish’s task was keeping us up and he achieved it. Lamberts task was keeping us up on a shoe string and for two years he achieved it. Sherwoods initial task was to keep us up after joining us when we were in the bottom three and he achieved it, then rebuilding a squad that had lost its best players and building one capable of keeping us up and he failed. Gardes task was improving the form of a struggling squad and he failed. Black was never more than an interim stop gap but if he must be judged then see Garde. I don’t know how you would put them in any order as they were all ultimately hampered by Lerner which is where the buck stops. I get that some genuinely dislike one or more of them and perhaps I am fortunate when looking at them that I don’t particularly dislike any of them so I don’t have that gut wrenching pull towards giving any of them a good kicking over the other. That didn’t stop me at the time we were struggling from sticking the knife in but having had chance to reassess I see now, and have for the last year, that it would have taken a very good manager to achieve more than they did under Lerner and none of them could ever have been considered that. Once again though the fault for that lies with Lerner in appointing them. Brilliant post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 4 hours ago, Keyblade said: It was literally like 5 or 6 good games though and the point is they are 5 or 6 good games more than some of our other managers. We have won 8 games since he left and even them victories were mainly turgid displays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 18 minutes ago, Zatman said: and the point is they are 5 or 6 good games more than some of our other managers. We have won 8 games since he left and even them victories were mainly turgid displays Apart from Garde and Di Matteo who had half seasons or less, all of our other managers in the past 6 years have had 5 or 6 good games, even McLeish...that was my point. Apart from the semifinal, his 5 or 6 good games weren't any different from the other managers' 5 or 6 good games which is why 'but he had some good games' is such an odd defence of him. They all did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 18 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Apart from Garde and Di Matteo who had half seasons or less, all of our other managers in the past 6 years have had 5 or 6 good games, even McLeish...that was my point. Apart from the semifinal, his 5 or 6 good games weren't any different from the other managers' 5 or 6 good games which is why 'but he had some good games' is such an odd defence of him. They all did. 7 wins from 16 games. 3 wins in a row. I haven't checked but can't imagine many recent managers have had runs like that. And on top it included an incredible semi final at Wembley. It's not similar to other 'few good games' IMO 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 23 minutes ago, DCJonah said: 7 wins from 16 games. 3 wins in a row. I haven't checked but can't imagine many recent managers have had runs like that. And on top it included an incredible semi final at Wembley. It's not similar to other 'few good games' IMO Bruce literally just a month or 2 ago, 7 wins from 11 and only 2 losses? Lambert at the end of his first season, 6 wins from 13? Houllier's run of 7 wins from 16 to stay up at the end of the season including wins at the Emirates and thrillers like the West Ham game was a nice too. And we haven't won 3 in a row in the league since the MON days, so I'm assuming you're including cup games in that. So like I said, take out the cup game and it's the exact same thing. Actually some of the runs I just mentioned were arguably better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Why would you take the cup games out of it? The semi final was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Why would you take the cup games out of it? The semi final was awesome. I did say it was easily the best game of the past 6 years. But then it was followed by easily the worst game of the past 6 years in the next round which pretty much cancels it out. He had a nice little run at the start of his tenure for sure (but his league form wasn't even that impressive, 5 wins from 13...or 7 losses from 13 depending on how you want to look at it), but was an utter car crash not soon after, and that's after being given the funds he needed to reshape the squad and pretend like he knew about French football. 9 losses out of 10, don't think even Garde got close to being that bad, he was easily in a class of his own. Also can we take a moment to remember how he didn't even have his coaching badges before he became manager. Of Aston Villa Football Club. In the Premier League. The man was our Donald Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 Just now, Keyblade said: . Also can we take a moment to remember how he didn't even have his coaching badges before he became manager. Of Aston Villa Football Club. In the Premier League. The man was our Donald Trump. does that really matter? I am sure Remi Garde and Steve Bruce have coaching badges and it didnt do them any favours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted February 14, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14, 2017 On 2/11/2017 at 14:52, Stevo985 said: He really wasn't. He's one of the main reasons we are where we are. The worst manager we've ever had, and his complete incompetency is being shown up once again. I wish there was a dislike button. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 On 2/11/2017 at 12:52, Stevo985 said: He really wasn't. He's one of the main reasons we are where we are. The worst manager we've ever had, and his complete incompetency is being shown up once again. this isnt the Steve Bruce thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 He's so good, he has gone in at Swindon, had a shit on their manager (wonder if he used his experience with Villas Boas?) and single handily saved their... Sorry, more revisionism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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