StefanAVFC Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) So for the first time in years we get a product of the youth scheme who looks to have genuine potential, who may get to be as good as, say, Brian Little, and who is already combining excitingly with players like Delph and Benteke, and people are wanting hiim to be dropped in favour of Gil. Don't really understand. People don't want Grealish dropped for Gil. You've literally made that up. I think it's a bit bizarre to claim I have "literally" made that up, when I was responding to this post: Basically at this point TS prefers Grealish over him I hope he gets a look in at some point as he did look pretty decent Now, let's try & work this out. Poster notes TS prefers Grealish to Gil but hopes Gil will get a look in. How would Gil therefore get a look in? Oh, by dropping Grealish. #simplelogic. This is quite possibly the most ridiculous straw man I've ever read. I genuinely have no idea idea how you've deduced what you have from what Nabby has said. All he said was that he hopes Gil gets a look in. He hasn't mentioned dropping Grealish. Also noticed you haven't addressed the fact that you got your 2 posts about conspiracy theories from the same person Some of us put our hands up when we make a mistake. Edited April 30, 2015 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 "Gil wants showdown talks with Tim Sherwood at end of season"http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/aston-villa/11572844/Carles-Gil-wants-showdown-talks-with-Tim-Sherwood-over-Aston-Villa-future.html From that article: The winger, 22, is settled at Villa and determined to fight for his place but is keen to discover if he has a role to play next season Phew! That's gonna be some "showdown"!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 He did score a good goal against Bournemouth in the Cup but in the league the results from his 5 appearances were 0-2, 0-5, 1-2, 0-2, 1-2, so it's not like he had single-handedly turned around our season or anything. Worth pointing out he got an assist against Chelsea which led to the only goal from our side, so he had an impact in that poor run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 We've had the following posts from different posters in the last couple of weeks, so it isn't just one poster by any stretch of the imagination: "I'm sure as Tim continues to improve, he'll see that this man should be getting more playing time. I hope he doesn't realise too late." "Gil was looking like Lambert had maybe signed someone special, somebody that makes things happen and let's face nobody else was at that moment in time. Point being IF Tim Left Gil in the team and IF our luck changed who gets the credit? Lambert and his last buy Gil maybe?. Let's face it Sherwood loves himself and I don't think he would be loving somebody else getting any credit for anything what happens after he took over." "We know Sherwood has a huge ego, an maybe he wants to prove he can do what a experienced manager like Lambert couldn't do, with the same players he had. Introducing Gil may make people think Gil has brought the winning formula, an im sure Sherwood wants 100% of the praise." And that's without the "I'd rather Gil here was here instead of Sherwood" of 3 weeks ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I just will continue to not understand the piss taking of people just wondering why he isn't playing. Looking back, that post was made after we'd lost to Stoke and Swansea at home. It wasn't that irrational (although it does look daft now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 So for the first time in years we get a product of the youth scheme who looks to have genuine potential, who may get to be as good as, say, Brian Little, and who is already combining excitingly with players like Delph and Benteke, and people are wanting hiim to be dropped in favour of Gil. Don't really understand. People don't want Grealish dropped for Gil. You've literally made that up. I think it's a bit bizarre to claim I have "literally" made that up, when I was responding to this post: Basically at this point TS prefers Grealish over him I hope he gets a look in at some point as he did look pretty decent Now, let's try & work this out. Poster notes TS prefers Grealish to Gil but hopes Gil will get a look in. How would Gil therefore get a look in? Oh, by dropping Grealish. #simplelogic. It's weird because there was universal praise (putting it mildly) for his performances before Sherwood arrived. You would think then that there would also be a consensus in puzzlement surrounding Gil's prolonged absence from the pitch but alas. One final try. Gil looked good in a Lambert side that was demoralised, confused about the type of football it was being asked to play, playing aimless sideways-passing football for much of the time and sinking fast down the league. He did score a good goal against Bournemouth in the Cup but in the league the results from his 5 appearances were 0-2, 0-5, 1-2, 0-2, 1-2, so it's not like he had single-handedly turned around our season or anything. When Sherwood arrived, he quite rightly said every player had a clean slate and he would pick the side best able to keep us up. Gil did start in his first match and was quite poor, so was pulled off after 58 minutes. I'm sure no-one really believes that the coaching staff haven't been encouraging Gil to play the sort of pacy, arttacking, passing football that Sherwood wants - delivering those passing triangles - and it is bonkers to imagine that Sherwood wouldn't pick the players who are delivering this new style the best. So the only conclusion can be that Gil hasn't quite matched up to the manager's requirements and so isn't getting picked. For whatever reason he isn't training well enough, we don't know and can be pretty clear we won't be told as that would be a bad breach of team confidentiality. I would like to think that Gil will fight to gain form and try to win his way back into the side but we will have to see. Stranger things have happened in the history of football. That post that you quoted states that TS prefers Grealish over Gil (which is true), then goes on to say he hopes to see Gil get a look in. How you equate that to him wanting Gil to start in place of Grealish is beyond me. Also, nobody is saying he single-handedly turned the team around; far from it. However, he was our best player during that period and that is pretty much universally agreed upon. So people are discussing the oddity of him not getting any game time where even Weimann is getting cameos, for perhaps the reasons you stated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 To be fair the only time I can think he should've come on was against Swansea when we lost to the Gomis goal instead Weimann came on. Not sure Weimann has played a part since that game either. In terms of Sherwood I think the criticism of him reacting to changes made by opposition started with that Swansea game I think; as montero came on and pretty much changed the game for them and we failed to adapt. That's about my only contribution to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 The first one isn't a criticism of Sherwood, nor is it a conspiracy theory. The other 2; one has been addressed numerous times and the poster doesn't have a sparkling record and the other, I didn't see. The poster in question did also say: I'm loving what Sherwood is doing but like a lot of people on here I'm just wondering why a player that was mostly running rings around people and scored a stunning goal is frozen out after one bad game? That's not me hating that me wondering. So you were quite clever in your omission there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 People made daft comments when Sherwood first joined so don't be surprised those stick in peoples minds. For what its worth I hope Gil is still here next year and I think he will have a big part in our team next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I just will continue to not understand the piss taking of people just wondering why he isn't playing. Looking back, that post was made after we'd lost to Stoke and Swansea at home. It wasn't that irrational (although it does look daft now) Stoke was his first game! A game in which Gil actually played, and didn't play very well at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) Ah very true. Idiot me. I think we'll probably need to agree to disagree on the extent on the conspiracies/negative posts. What we should be able to agree on is: Sherwood is doing well. We have a cup final to look forward to. Gil did look good under Lambert. People made daft comments when Sherwood first joined so don't be surprised those stick in peoples minds. For what its worth I hope Gil is still here next year and I think he will have a big part in our team next season. It's almost as if people change and update their opinion based on what they see. Edited April 30, 2015 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Yep, didn't disagree, but when you're saying such daft things so early on its going to stick. So you may now be just wondering but when 3 weeks ago you wanted the manager gone over the player that's going to still be fresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Honestly don't get why Gil has caused so much controversy. No other player seems to have caused such a divide and I don't know how he has done it, or even if he has done it. come on. Every manager on VT has his Gil. Was Luke Young or Reo-Coker for MON, Bent for Lambert even Warnock for Houllier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudevillaisnice Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 It's football fans in general. Januzaj at United etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Risso Posted April 30, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted April 30, 2015 It's "Reo-Coker's Law" whereby their reputation grows exponentially bigger than their time sat on the bench. R=B squared, where R = reputation and B = time out of the team. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) People made daft comments when Sherwood first joined so don't be surprised those stick in peoples minds.For what its worth I hope Gil is still here next year and I think he will have a big part in our team next season.I hope your right. The guardian seem to think he wants to stay and fight if Sherwood wants him. Edited April 30, 2015 by KSV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 30, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted April 30, 2015 It isn't just one person at all. We had several people earlier in the thread saying they'd prefer Gil to still be here next season instead of Sherwood.That was like 2 months ago and was one post. Seemingly you can't mention wanting to see Gil without somebody referencing that post. Talk about siege mentally is ironic as it seems to be the people referencing that post that have that mentality. Want to see more of Gil and you get a barrage of posts about how you're crazy for believing conspiracy theories and how dare you question the manager and you want Grealish dropped etc A genuine "LOL" at the two months ago, it was the 8th of April! 3 weeks ago! Its not surprising that you ignored the guts of the post and focused on something that didn't really matter. The point is it was weeks ago and people are still bringing it up every time someone wants to see more of Gil. It's irrelevant unless you're addressing that particular poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 30, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted April 30, 2015 Talk about siege mentally is ironic as it seems to be the people referencing that post that have that mentality. That was my point yes. No irony involved at all. None of these posts seem to be about Gil anymore, so with that I'm out.The irony was that you suggested that the people who liked that post were the ones showing the siege mentality, whereas I think its the people who keep bringing that post up to defend the manager (despite him not needing defending as hardly anyone is criticising him) that are showing the siege mentality. I did not suggest that. You have assumed that and I don't know why. I agree with you. Fair enough. That's how I read it. I obviously misinterpreted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 30, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted April 30, 2015 So for the first time in years we get a product of the youth scheme who looks to have genuine potential, who may get to be as good as, say, Brian Little, and who is already combining excitingly with players like Delph and Benteke, and people are wanting hiim to be dropped in favour of Gil. Don't really understand. People don't want Grealish dropped for Gil. You've literally made that up. I think it's a bit bizarre to claim I have "literally" made that up, when I was responding to this post:Basically at this point TS prefers Grealish over him I hope he gets a look in at some point as he did look pretty decent Now, let's try & work this out. Poster notes TS prefers Grealish to Gil but hopes Gil will get a look in. How would Gil therefore get a look in? Oh, by dropping Grealish. #simplelogic. I see nothing there to show you didn't make up your statement that people want Grealish dropped. Its a straw man argument. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. If anyone WAS saying they want Grealish dropped then they are stupid to want that. But nobody does. Honestly. You're arguing against nobody. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 So for the first time in years we get a product of the youth scheme who looks to have genuine potential, who may get to be as good as, say, Brian Little, and who is already combining excitingly with players like Delph and Benteke, and people are wanting hiim to be dropped in favour of Gil. Don't really understand. People don't want Grealish dropped for Gil. You've literally made that up. I think it's a bit bizarre to claim I have "literally" made that up, when I was responding to this post: Basically at this point TS prefers Grealish over him I hope he gets a look in at some point as he did look pretty decent Now, let's try & work this out. Poster notes TS prefers Grealish to Gil but hopes Gil will get a look in. How would Gil therefore get a look in? Oh, by dropping Grealish. #simplelogic. I see nothing there to show you didn't make up your statement that people want Grealish dropped. In that case, you either haven't read - or have read, but haven't understood - what I said and there is no more discussion to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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