The ISIS threat to Europe

[ermie123]

I don't no never seen any Muslim marches against all this anywhere.

[ermie123]

Anyway it will be tomorrows chip paper and the latest celeb gossip will be in the news again.

[Keyblade]

Nor do they have to.

[foreveryoung]

5 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Don't we always get this comment? Then it's followed by a fair few quotes from numerous muslims, muslim organizations (like the muslim council of Britain) and muslim sources expressing their disgust and so on with terrorist action taken in the name of their religion.

Not sure weather your agreeing here or not? Though I do totally agree with you, that Muslims express there disgust, an yeah, we will hear that in the media. But do they help in preventing it was the question? They have the biggest influence surely?

[gharperr]

3 minutes ago, ermie123 said:

I don't no never seen any Muslim marches against all this anywhere.

Not this type of comment again...

[foreveryoung]

Just now, gharperr said:

Not this type of comment again...

But we have seem marches 'for' extremism. An thats worrying

[Awol]

2 hours ago, momo said:

What are you on? Wahabism is the foundation of the Saudi state. They are in direct competition with ISIS who are trying to make their own kaliphat. You are comparing apples to oranges, and are generalizing Muslims/Arabs. It is like saying Italians and Finns are the same shit.

I'll give this one more go and if it's still not clear to you then let's call it quits.

Yes of course Wahhabism is the foundation of the Saudi State in partnership with the Al Saud dynasty. 

Wahhabism is the theological doctrine that underpins the nastier Jihadi movements - see video clip linked earlier for evidence.

Therefore Saudi Arabia is really indivisible from Al Qaeda, Islamic State et al,  except for the leadership issue - the Al Saud believe they should be in charge and Al Baghdadi reckons he's the gaffer in waiting, before him Bin Laden quite fancied the job. 

That's the basic conflict between the Saud/Wahhabi establishment and IS/AQ, the actual religious belief systems are the same - more golden delicious vs Granny Smiths than comparing apples and oranges.

Saudi Arabia is the ideological inspiration for modern Jihadi terrorism and that is the cancer that the world needs to deal with.

That is not generalising about Muslims or Arabs, only a Saudi would be conceited enough to believe that a criticism of their own deeply malevolent and medieval world view represented a criticism of all Muslims or Arabs.

Wahhabism is good old fascism dressed up in religious garb - and without the snappy uniforms. It needs to be treated by the world in exactly the same manner and utterly destroyed. 

[Keyblade]

2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

But we have seem marches 'for' extremism. An thats worrying

And those would be the extremists. Not sure what that has to do with the non-extremists.

[HanoiVillan]

4 minutes ago, Awol said:

I'll give this one more go and if it's still not clear to you then let's call it quits.

Yes of course Wahhabism is the foundation of the Saudi State in partnership with the Al Saud dynasty. 

Wahhabism is the theological doctrine that underpins the nastier Jihadi movements - see video clip linked earlier for evidence.

Therefore Saudi Arabia is really indivisible from Al Qaeda, Islamic State et al,  except for the leadership issue - the Al Saud believe they should be in charge and Al Baghdadi reckons he's the gaffer in waiting, before him Bin Laden quite fancied the job. 

That's the basic conflict between the Saud/Wahhabi establishment and IS/AQ, the actual religious belief systems are the same - more golden delicious vs Granny Smiths than comparing apples and oranges.

Saudi Arabia is the ideological inspiration for modern Jihadi terrorism and that is the cancer that the world needs to deal with.

That is not generalising about Muslims or Arabs, only a Saudi would be conceited enough to believe that a criticism of their own deeply malevolent and medieval world view represented a criticism of all Muslims or Arabs.

Wahhabism is good old fascism dressed up in religious garb - and without the snappy uniforms. It needs to be treated by the world in exactly the same manner and utterly destroyed. 

I spent a minute or two looking at this, not really understanding, then I isolated the source of my confusion - in charge of what, exactly?

[Awol]

Just now, HanoiVillan said:

I spent a minute or two looking at this, not really understanding, then I isolated the source of my confusion - in charge of what, exactly?

Primarily the two holy mosques, but beyond that the Arabian Peninsula and in the case of IS, the entire Muslim world.

[Seat68]

Muslims march against extremism, Google it. I guess it's easier to think they don't. 

[snowychap]

26 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Not sure weather your agreeing here or not? Though I do totally agree with you, that Muslims express there disgust, an yeah, we will hear that in the media. But do they help in preventing it was the question? They have the biggest influence surely?

You are not sure whether I'm agreeing with you? I'll make it quite clear that I'm not.

Some muslims do express their disgust and so do some muslim organizations. Some don't and some might well express their support for the actions taken.

So what should we do? Well, I'd have thought that, if we condemn the actions ourselves, we should also condemn those who express support for those actions. We should not condemn the others (to condemn those who remain silent might well be hypocritical if we're also remaining silent or not out 'marching'). Perhaps we should even indicate our agreement with those who are expressing their disgust - maybe that might help people to feel that they are part of the society to which they belong rather than hinting that muslims, as one homogenous grouping, implicitly support actions taken by jihadi killers because they aren't out on the streets shouting their disapproval?

[Awol]

Sky News reporting that one of the attackers was a Syrian who came to Europe through Greece on the 3rd of October.  

[Xela]

I think we always feared there could be some sleeper terrorists coming through the borders with the refugees 

[tonyh29]

1 minute ago, Awol said:

Sky News reporting that one of the attackers was a Syrian who came to Europe through Greece on the 3rd of October.  

Who'd have thunk it ..

Now the fun begins ....of course the European governments know exactly where everyone is so it shouldn't be too difficult ... Oh wait

 

[rendelc]

Game changer 

[maqroll]

Cue an expanded war effort including ground troops. This is what the war profiteers always wanted, perpetual war. 

[Genie]

2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Did you mean to quote Chindie?

Yep :-)

[Awol]

2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Who'd have thunk it ..

Now the fun begins ....of course the European governments know exactly where everyone is so it shouldn't be too difficult ... Oh wait

 

Yep. If not for blind luck and the bravery of a few off duty squaddies on a train this would be the second mass attack in Europe in two months. 

I think Merkel could find herself in real trouble now, the Germans have literally no idea who is in their country and they are still rolling in at the rate of 10,000 per day. In reality the overwhelming majority are decent people fleeing hell, but they won't all be (as we now know with a degree of confidence) and 5-6 guys can cause absolute carnage.  

Schengen is already in tatters, this might be the thing that kills it completely. Once free movement goes it's all downhill from there. 

 

[Chindie]

It changes the approach to refugees, makes Europe's approach much more careful.

I don't think it changes much in Syria. There's no will to put boots on the ground. And the whole thing is a prefer keg waiting to go wrong. The West won't commit to a full operation there for the foreseeable, IMO.