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The ISIS threat to Europe


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1 minute ago, PieFacE said:

I can't help but feel if Islam didn't exist then these attacks would still take place by the same sick minded individuals / groups,  but they would claim they are doing it for a different reason or a different cause.  

 

It's easy for them to use Islam / Allah as an excuse for committing these crimes,  the problem isn't Islam itself,  it's whoever is brainwashing these people to think behaving like this is acceptable.  Unfortunately,  until countries catch up with the Western world in terms of society and education these sort of attacks will keep happening.  Its really tough one to fix,  I really don't see any solution to the problem.  

They don't want to catch up with us. They don't want Western liberal democracy.

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24 minutes ago, Awol said:

I'm reposting this from earlier in the thread for the people who are insisting that religion plays no part in these type of attacks.

It is a translation of and commentary on a recent speech being given to the faithful in Mecca's Grand Mosque, the holiest site in Islam. In it the Imam prays for the success of Sunni Jihadis everywhere and calls on God for the death of Shia Muslims, Jews and Christians.  This is the equivalent of the Pope standing up in St Paul's Cathedral and calling on God to rain death on everyone who isn't a member of Opus Dei.

I'm not demonising individual Muslims or the Islamic faith, simply pointing out that the religious extremism practiced in mainstream Saudi Arabia directly contradicts this repeated and demonstrably false assertion that Islamic terrorism and the Islamic faith have no correlation whatsoever.

When trying to figure out how to address a problem it isn't helpful to deny that the problem exists, even when presented with prima facie evidence that it does.      

Religion plays a part, nobody is denying that. But there are countless other factors which contribute to it, which when added up shows up religion to be nothing more than a justification. Why do people ignore that? What's the point of constantly hammering that point home? Everybody realizes Islam plays a part, all that does is demonize the other 99.9% of Muslims who incidentally follow the same religion/texts by proxy whether it is intentional on your part or not. Also comparing the Pope to an Imam in Mecca lol. Most Muslims realize how distorted and politicized Saudi Imams and their interpretations are along with the fact that no Imam/human is infallible the way the Pope is. 

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I can't help but feel if Islam didn't exist then these attacks would still take place by the same sick minded individuals / groups,  but they would claim they are doing it for a different reason or a different cause.  

 

It's easy for them to use Islam / Allah as an excuse for committing these crimes,  the problem isn't Islam itself,  it's whoever is brainwashing these people to think behaving like this is acceptable.  Unfortunately,  until countries catch up with the Western world in terms of society and education these sort of attacks will keep happening. Is religion holding that back?  Maybe,  probably,  but it would have for us too but we got there in the end.   Its really tough one to fix,  I really don't see any solution to the problem.  

Nail. Head.

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14 minutes ago, Awol said:

Mate the reason I reposted the link was because there are people on this thread denying exactly that. The Pope comment was simply trying to emphasise the importance of where the comments were being made, obviously there is no centralised "Church" in the Islamic faith and therefore no precise comparison to be made.

My comment was absolutely not demonising Islam or all Muslims, be they Shia, Ibadi, Sufi or Sunni. All that said, there needs to be some very public recognition about the straight line that exists between Saudi Wahhabi Islamic doctrine and the emergence of and support for groups like AQ and IS. This is vitally important because Saudi Petrodollars have been used for years to proselytize this religious extremism out into the wider world. From the madrassas of Pakistan to the East London Mosque in Whitechapel they are funding the deliberate spread of a poisonous hatred that radicalizes young minds and turns them against their own societies.     

Until that clear and uncomfortable fact is faced and then dealt with we will continue dealing with the tragic symptoms of this problem, rather than addressing the disease itself. 

Generalizing billions of people to make a point that religion is the cause of terror? You couldn't be more wrong. ISIS was created on the background of colonialism, occupation, illegal war, bombings, killings, torture, poorness. People killed because they happen to be Muslims in predominantly Muslim countries. A hell of a lot more Muslims die because of western countries invasions, but you seem to ignore that. Do Muslim lives matter less to you?

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2 hours ago, Awol said:

Mate the reason I reposted the link was because there are people on this thread denying exactly that. The Pope comment was simply trying to emphasise the importance of where the comments were being made, obviously there is no centralised "Church" in the Islamic faith and therefore no precise comparison to be made.

My comment was absolutely not demonising Islam or all Muslims, be they Shia, Ibadi, Sufi or Sunni. All that said, there needs to be some very public recognition about the straight line that exists between Saudi Wahhabi Islamic doctrine and the emergence of and support for groups like AQ and IS. This is vitally important because Saudi Petrodollars have been used for years to proselytize this religious extremism out into the wider world. From the madrassas of Pakistan to the East London Mosque in Whitechapel they are funding the deliberate spread of a poisonous hatred that radicalizes young minds and turns them against their own societies.     

Until that clear and uncomfortable fact is faced and then dealt with we will continue dealing with the tragic symptoms of this problem, rather than addressing the disease itself. 

Ah I see where you're coming from, my bad man. I totally agree re: Saudi Petrodollars and their dangerous proselytizing, it's poisonous. But you also have to keep in mind that they're fully supported by the US and other Western powers in their endeavours, which makes Western outcry towards fundamentalism a little ironic.

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