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The ISIS threat to Europe


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9 hours ago, Rob182 said:

I'll wait for a better solution then. I'm all ears. I hope something dramatic happens, because the way things are going, I fear that London or another British city could be one of the next to fall victim to this.

There isn't one sadly, unless one side or the others sky fairy decides to put in an appearance or send a son/prophet to settle things.

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2 minutes ago, MikeMcKenna said:

But there are still parallels. Despite losing Irish friends in the Birmingham bombings, I was beaten up as I was born in Ireland, despite being as much a "Brummie" as my attackers.  My father and other Irish guys had to take two/three weeks off work. Many other friends of Irish descent were attacked. None of us ever had any connection with any republican politics. As 21 year old at the time of my beating I could easily have been "radicalised"

Terrorists aim to spread hatred and division. The Islamic fundamentalist murderers know that these types of attacks will result in more division and discrimination against Muslims. This helps them to radicalise and recruit more future terrorists. They are winning and the West hasn't got a clue what to do about it.  :-(

Mike,

Of course there are parallels, that's why I used the example. The rest of your post is pretty much what I was also trying to say. 

Some people love a simplistic answer and don't like real life getting in the way. We clearly can't 'allow' free movement of a million unknown people back and fore across europe. But we also can't 'send everyone back' that looks a bit foreign or has a foreign name or is muslim. A good few people appear to be in raging at the traffic mode and are demanding a return to the good old days.

Revenge attacks are bound to happen. Some from sheer frustration at the complicated modern world, some in the hope of stoking the fires between different groups. I dislike scum of any colour and any belief system. I like nurses and shop keepers of any colour or belief system.

 

 

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Just now, av1 said: But not a Muslim terrorist no?

Do we know this yet?

Or are you making a wild assumption?

Even if they are Muslims, does that make it right to condemn Islam as a religion because of a few idiots? (again, in the grand scheme of things, it is a few idiots committing these vile acts)

Stefan I've followed your posts this evening. I completely understand the point you're making, but don't think you're making it's particularly well. The act that has happened is terrorism, yes. There has been no confirmation it's related to Islam as yet. It's not unreasonable for someone to expect it's a terrorist attack from an Islamic group, simply because in the western world, over the last 5-10 years (correct me if I'm wrong) most of the terrorist attacks we've seen are from an Islamic group.

It's wrong for someone to make a complete assumption of the killers affiliation at this point, BUT most recent experience, confirmed data and current world politics would suggest it may be Islamic based.

I'm cussing neither side, I understand both arguments, but I can't subscribe to either.

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1 minute ago, PongRiddims said:

Stefan I've followed your posts this evening. I completely understand the point you're making, but don't think you're making it's particularly well. The act that has happened is terrorism, yes. There has been no confirmation it's related to Islam as yet. It's not unreasonable for someone to expect it's a terrorist attack from an Islamic group, simply because in the western world, over the last 5-10 years (correct me if I'm wrong) most of the terrorist attacks we've seen are from an Islamic group.

 

It's wrong for someone to make a complete assumption of the killers affiliation at this point, BUT most recent experience, confirmed data and current world politics would suggest it may be Islamic based.

 

I'm cussing neither side, I understand both arguments, but I can't subscribe to either.

Agreed that I haven't made it well with regards to that particular point. It's almost 2am here and I've had a few drinks so fully noted on that.

What I mean is that it's silly to make assumptions on who did this attack and the reasoning behind it without knowing facts. It's far easier to shout MUSLIMS, ISIS, REFUGEES!! than wait and see. To immediately make those assumptions just strikes me as having a pre-determined agenda to be honest.

That was the basic point I was making and I hope I've made it clearer!

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22 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

They can't just close the borders in europe though can they

Freedom of movement is one of the very principles the EU is built on is it not

Yes they can.

It's a bit of a myth that they aren't allowed to. The rule is that they keep the borders open when it's mutually convenient but every individual country has kept the right to close their borders when they feel there's an emergency.

Sounds like a very sensible system to me.

 

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8 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

I was about to post something very similar but you said it better.

Spot on.

Thanks but It has brought back some terrible, terrible memories: On the 14th November 1974 it was my 21st birthday. Prior to my do at the old Locarno nightclub many of us met at the Tavern in the Town in New Street as it was one of our regular haunts. A week later we could easily have gone there again or the Mulberry Bush but decided to go elsewhere in the city centre (I can't remember where) but one of my old mates Desmond Reilly and his brother Eugene did go to the Tavern and were killed when the IRA bombs went off.

Must admit that I have shed a tear and feel sick at the memories :-(   It is all so pointless.

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5 minutes ago, av1 said: Its generally excepted that these "few idiot's" receive huge backing from Saudi Arabia, it is not a "few idiot's"

 

If the attack has been carried out by ISIS or it's sympathisers then it's probably worth saying that it's widely accepted that they were born out of some bloke called George Bush and his mate Tony Blair deciding that it would be a good idea to engineer regime change in Iraq and Syria by invading Iraq and doing everything we could to undermine the Syrian government. We made a right mess of Basra, we stood and watched a power vacuum be get created in Syria and it created a monster.  I'm not educated enough on the matter but it seems you can point to a hundred things in a hundred years which lead to the point where we are today, ill feeling over the creation of Israel, the way Britain and France handled the partition of the Ottoman Empire in the 1920s, the fact that we were in the Middle East about five minutes after oil was discovered. Shit, the British Navy was the most powerful military force in the world in the first part of the 20th century and it ran on Iraqi oil. There are strong arguments that we were more than happy to go to war with Germany in 1914 even if they hadn't invaded Belgium because they were planning on building a railway from Berlin to Baghdad which would have undermined us economically. The West (chiefly western Europe & the USA) are far from angels and our collective foreign policy, which conveniently doesn't get reported on much by the BBC and Sky News pisses a lot of people off globally.

Yes, it's easy to shout "bloody Muslims" or "bloody immigrants" and be done with it until next time, but if you look at the root cause of all of this ill feeling then It's not a simple case of good guys (us) vs bad guys (them) is it?

Excellent post. The simplicity of 'us' and 'them' is incredibly difficult in these conversations

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8 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: I was about to post something very similar but you said it better.

Spot on.

Thanks but It has brought back some terrible, terrible memories: On the 14th November 1974 it was my 21st birthday. Prior to my do at the old Locarno nightclub many of us met at the Tavern in the Town in New Street as it was one of our regular haunts. A week later we could easily have gone there again or the Mulberry Bush but decided to go elsewhere in the city centre (I can't remember where) but one of my old mates Desmond Reilly and his brother Eugene did go to the Tavern and were killed when the IRA bombs went off.

Must admit that I have shed a tear and feel sick at the memories :-(   It is all so pointless.

I was expecting someone to bring the IRA up, I didn't realise it would happen with such emotion. Thanks for raising your point and I'm sorry it's raised some terrible emotions. I don't remember the IRA in Brum but I've met a few harmed by it, terrorism is a very complex and difficult thing

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1 minute ago, PongRiddims said: Stefan I've followed your posts this evening. I completely understand the point you're making, but don't think you're making it's particularly well. The act that has happened is terrorism, yes. There has been no confirmation it's related to Islam as yet. It's not unreasonable for someone to expect it's a terrorist attack from an Islamic group, simply because in the western world, over the last 5-10 years (correct me if I'm wrong) most of the terrorist attacks we've seen are from an Islamic group.

 

It's wrong for someone to make a complete assumption of the killers affiliation at this point, BUT most recent experience, confirmed data and current world politics would suggest it may be Islamic based.

 

I'm cussing neither side, I understand both arguments, but I can't subscribe to either.

Agreed that I haven't made it well with regards to that particular point. It's almost 2am here and I've had a few drinks so fully noted on that.

What I mean is that it's silly to make assumptions on who did this attack and the reasoning behind it without knowing facts. It's far easier to shout MUSLIMS, ISIS, REFUGEES!! than wait and see. To immediately make those assumptions just strikes me as having a pre-determined agenda to be honest.

That was the basic point I was making and I hope I've made it clearer!

Don't worry, your point ultimately comes across

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