limpid Posted July 15, 2016 Administrator Share Posted July 15, 2016 5 minutes ago, chakal said: the case is they very often don't want to integrate and be part of "our" society What are you basing this assertion on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 15, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2016 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Genie said: In general not, but given what he was about to do you'd expect he'd want to try at least to go unknown and leave his ID at home... Why? Let's assume he was a fully paid up radical Islamist. In doing this he either hopes to die, in which case it doesn't matter that people know who he is and he wants to advertise the cause (and perhaps to an extent himself), in which case his name makes it easier to discover any connection or ideology he held, or he lives to be caught, in which case his name comes out anyway. If it isn't an Islamist thing, the same pretty much applies really. Why hide who you are? You're dying or you're caught and they find out eventually. It's not beyond the realm of doubt this is another bloke who's snapped. By all accounts his life was in turmoil from what we've heard so far. His lack of religiosity doesn't help either way - loads of Islamic terrorists are shitty Muslims (ignoring the usual 'of course he's a bad Muslim, you aren't supposed to kill people' thing) but get drawn in to the madness as a miracle cure for why their life is bollocks, but equally he could just be a nutter who happen's to be nominally Muslim. Edited July 15, 2016 by Chindie Clarification. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom_Wren Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Just saw young kid being interviewed on TV, he said he saw the lorry and was trapped and just gave up hope, it hit a bench and missed him. Imagine just being trapped and thinking i just give up on life......kin hell makes me just shake my head. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thomas Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 7 hours ago, BOF said: Just ... staggering. (SFW) Jesus Christ what is wrong with people !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 15, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 15, 2016 5 hours ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: Uber cancelled it's free ice cream offer today.. Not cool. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 15, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 15, 2016 39 minutes ago, chakal said: the case is they very often don't want to integrate and be part of "our" society 34 minutes ago, limpid said: What are you basing this assertion on? I can't answer for anyone else, but it is the case that groups of people who settle abroad will and do sometimes not wish to really integrate or be part of the society of that country - there are Brits in Spain exactly behaving that way. There are groups of people in this country who for various reasons prefer to remain isolated as enclaves of their original lands. To an extent it's an inevitability that people may migrate to areas where others of their nationality or culture already live. There are enclaves in London and elsewhere of people from various faiths and nationalities which are quite or very insular (it would seem from detailed reporting and interviews and such like) who desire to remain somewhat or very separate. I think the only thing contestable about chakal's claim is the "very often" part of it. I suspect it varies quite wildly depending on where you live. My experience, such as it is, is that people mostly want to and do try and mix in, and that perhaps sometimes it's fear of or genuine rejection by the host nation that might be at least as big a driver of the isolation. Reporting from France for the past 20 years does suggest there's more of a problem there of whole enclaves which are openly hostile to the host nation and population and very divided on racial and religious lines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted July 15, 2016 Administrator Share Posted July 15, 2016 Just now, blandy said: I think the only thing contestable about @chakal's claim is the "very often" part of it. Yes, that's the bit I was curious about. I wasn't contending it though, just asking for clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Again just awful scenes on the news. Though I cannot stop thinking, for a country on highest alert, with one of the biggest events on the calender, where the hell was the security. Reports coming out this truck was parked up for 9 hours, driver was approched and apparently said he was delivering ice cream. In a non refrigerated truck?? Also how the hell did he travel for nearly a mile without the police intervening. One guy who was there sad there was hardly any police around at the event. You certainly can't plan for this, no chance, although thinking the security was second to none for the football, here at another major event, hardly any to be seen. France indeed need to be much more vigilant than this surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 3 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Again just awful scenes on the news. Though I cannot stop thinking, for a country on highest alert, with one of the biggest events on the calender, where the hell was the security. Reports coming out this truck was parked up for 9 hours, driver was approched and apparently said he was delivering ice cream. In a non refrigerated truck?? Also how the hell did he travel for nearly a mile without the police intervening. One guy who was there sad there was hardly any police around at the event. You certainly can't plan for this, no chance, although thinking the security was second to none for the football, here at another major event, hardly any to be seen. France indeed need to be much more vigilant than this surely. it was a refrigerated truck according to reports. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 15, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2016 6 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Again just awful scenes on the news. Though I cannot stop thinking, for a country on highest alert, with one of the biggest events on the calender, where the hell was the security. Reports coming out this truck was parked up for 9 hours, driver was approched and apparently said he was delivering ice cream. In a non refrigerated truck?? Also how the hell did he travel for nearly a mile without the police intervening. One guy who was there sad there was hardly any police around at the event. You certainly can't plan for this, no chance, although thinking the security was second to none for the football, here at another major event, hardly any to be seen. France indeed need to be much more vigilant than this surely. Police tried to stop the lorry before it hit the crowd, they fired on it. It's very hard to stop this kind of thing. They might have stood a chance if they knew who he was, but to the authorities he was a pretty criminal. For France this is a nobody hiring a lorry and committing an atrocity at random. You don't stop that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 p = m*v E_k = 0.5*m*v*v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 1 minute ago, Chindie said: Police tried to stop the lorry before it hit the crowd, they fired on it. It's very hard to stop this kind of thing. They might have stood a chance if they knew who he was, but to the authorities he was a pretty criminal. For France this is a nobody hiring a lorry and committing an atrocity at random. You don't stop that. You stop it by being more vigilant. As a country on its highest alert, I find it shocking that many more armed officers or even the military were not at the event. Dropped there guard a little after the Euro's it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted July 15, 2016 Administrator Share Posted July 15, 2016 There is a separate thread for the events in Turkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 World is messed up. Only far east Asia seems stable nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Just now, NoelVilla said: World is messed up. Only far east Asia seems stable nowadays. Abe is working his hardest to get things going there too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 15, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 15, 2016 2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: You stop it by being more vigilant. As a country on its highest alert, I find it shocking that many more armed officers or even the military were not at the event. Dropped there guard a little after the Euro's it seems. There were armed officers on the scene. Hence why this man is dead. There appears to be no hint this would happen, France was preparing to lower it's state of emergency, Nice isn't an immediately obvious target (unlike Paris). You can't defend everything. Even in a police state. At this moment in time, I wouldn't criticise the French security services. I'd praise them for managing to stop the tragedy before it became worse, when blind sided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 6 minutes ago, villakram said: Abe is working his hardest to get things going there too... Do you mean the Japanese prime minister? What is he doing. Sorry for OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Just now, NoelVilla said: Do you mean the Japanese prime minister? What is he doing. Sorry for OT. He is working his damnedest to get the constitution re-written to allow them to re-arm, and recent elections give him the votes to do it. This is the guy who went and laid a wreath at the Japanese equivalent of an SS memorial, and pretends that all the WWII horrors didn't happen... Japan heading in a bad direction right now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Not liked for the content but for the information. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 That an attack of this scale can be carried out by a lone assailant, with minimal planning and an unconventional weapon is far more terrifying to me than an organised, trips to the Middle East, bomb manual PDFs, radical preacher style attack. There's no red flags, you can't have faith in security forces to prevent it. I'm feeling far more worried about what this attack might inspire in the UK than I ever was about Paris. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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