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The ISIS threat to Europe


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25 minutes ago, Awol said:

ISIS have now claimed the Nice attack. They don't claim things they haven't done

How can you make that claim?

It seems utterly sensible that they'd go around claiming anything that they can in order to puff up their chests at every available opportunity.

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Whichever way it pans out, today's a great day for the people that love this stuff to get wood and touch themselves whilst saying 'told you so' and telling us that they are in the know on these things and more extreme action, clamp downs, drones and assassinations are our only option.

White guys and brown guys, military trainspotters, loving a bit of action from their laptops.

 

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6 minutes ago, snowychap said:

How can you make that claim?

It seems utterly sensible that they'd go around claiming anything that they can in order to puff up their chests at every available opportunity.

Only they haven't done that.

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There are some truly horrible details emerging about what happened to some of the victims at the Bataclan.

I'd just assumed they were shot but clearly it was far worse.

Some were subjected to gruesome torture that was filmed to be used as propaganda.

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6 minutes ago, snowychap said:

According to you?

No according to every serious work written about them. It is a core part of their approach, do what we say & say what we do. 

Western countries have never once accused ISIS of falsely claiming an atrocity, because they don't do it.

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11 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Whichever way it pans out, today's a great day for the people that love this stuff to get wood and touch themselves whilst saying 'told you so' and telling us that they are in the know on these things and more extreme action, clamp downs, drones and assassinations are our only option.

White guys and brown guys, military trainspotters, loving a bit of action from their laptops.

 

Or maybe people who take more than a passing interest in this stuff are having a discussion. 

How very dare they.

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8 minutes ago, Awol said:

No according to every serious work written about them. It is a core part of their approach, do what we say & say what we do. 

Western countries have never once accused ISIS of falsely claiming an atrocity, because they don't do it.

All of the 'serious' work written by the likes of the Quilliam guy in the Torygraph? Or all of the 'security experts' that they trot out on telly after each and every event to 'not speculate' on what has just happened?

It wouldn't fit with western countries narratives to suggest it either.

Have ISIS come out and said about any incident, "This one's not ours, chaps."? They may have - I think I've missed it if they did.

Edit: None of this is to say that the claims that they've made are untrue but it seems quite bizarre for people to accept without question everything that they proffer up as 'truth'.

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2 minutes ago, snowychap said:

All of the 'serious' work written by the likes of the Quilliam guy in the Torygraph? Or all of the 'security experts' that they trot out on telly after each and every event to 'not speculate' on what has just happened?

It wouldn't fit with western countries narratives to suggest it either.

Have ISIS come out and said about any incident, "This one's not ours, chaps."? They may have - I think I've missed it if they did.

Can you give an example of something they've falsely claimed?

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2 minutes ago, snowychap said:

All of the 'serious' work written by the likes of the Quilliam guy in the Torygraph? Or all of the 'security experts' that they trot out on telly after each and every event to 'not speculate' on what has just happened?

It wouldn't fit with western countries narratives to suggest it either.

Have ISIS come out and said about any incident, "This one's not ours, chaps."? They may have - I think I've missed it if they did.

No, the people who have studied this organization since it was AQI under Zarqawi back in 05/06. You know, "security experts".

The only time I've ever seen an organization release a statement to say 'not us Guv' was AQAP in Yemen when ISIS butchered some Indian nurses. Generally these groups don't comment on things they didn't do.

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1 minute ago, TrentVilla said:

Can you give an example of something they've falsely claimed?

Of course I can't. What an utterly extraordinary question.

Unless I'm responsible for one of the things that they have claimed, I can't tell you that they aren't responsible for something they've claimed.

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5 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Can you give an example of something they've falsely claimed?

You'd need to direct that question to an MP. They're the experts in that area.

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3 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Of course I can't. What an utterly extraordinary question.

Unless I'm responsible for one of the things that they have claimed, I can't tell you that they aren't responsible for something they've claimed.

Actually it's a perfectly reasonable question.

If ISIS routinely claimed things that they weren't responsible for as other groups have done in the past sooner or later one would be disproved, it's not happened though.

So you can't answer the question.

Which means there is absolutely nothing to support your view point.

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There were any number of 'experts' on the various news channels last night and in to the early hours all giving us their expert knowledge and their ITK tip offs on how that was going to pan out.

Turned out the experts with the inside track knew **** all. Just chancers with an angle to push. That angle usually involving telling us this will all get better if we could just bomb this guy or kill that guy or buy more of this weapon.

That was Turkey experts. They've all shuffled back across the table to resume their position as IS experts now I presume. 

 

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1 minute ago, Awol said:

The only time I've ever seen an organization release a statement to say 'not us Guv' was AQAP in Yemen when ISIS butchered some Indian nurses. Generally these groups don't comment on things they didn't do.

That would appear to be an example of circular reasoning.

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A cursory google search shows an attack on Bangladesh from a couple of months ago that they claimed which was rebuked by Bangladeshi officials. Why wouldn't they want to claim an attack that was even bigger than 7/7? 

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2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

A cursory google search shows an attack on Bangladesh from a couple of months ago that they claimed which was rebuked by Bangladeshi officials. Why wouldn't they want to claim an attack that was even bigger than 7/7? 

ISIS stormed a cafe in Bangladesh 2 weeks ago and tortured 20 people to death over 12 hour period.

The Bangladeshi authorities denied it was ISIS because they won't admit ISIS have a presence in the country. 

 

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