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The ISIS threat to Europe


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2 hours ago, Dom_Wren said:

Just saw young kid being interviewed on TV, he said he saw the lorry and was trapped and just gave up hope, it hit a bench and missed him.  Imagine just being trapped and thinking i just give up on life......kin hell makes me just shake my head.

Slightly OT, but I knew a guy who was swimming in the ocean with a friend of his who got caught in a riptide. The guy fought against it, which just exhausted him, and when the guy I knew yelled out to him that he was coming to help him, the guy said "I'm done", and just sank, and drowned. It's like he just accepted it. strange and tragic.

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7 minutes ago, a m ole said:

That an attack of this scale can be carried out by a lone assailant, with minimal planning and an unconventional weapon is far more terrifying to me than an organised, trips to the Middle East, bomb manual PDFs, radical preacher style attack. There's no red flags, you can't have faith in security forces to prevent it.

I'm feeling far more worried about what this attack might inspire in the UK than I ever was about Paris.

Yep. Any public gathering is fair game for a psychopath. A can of gasoline and a book of matches could be catastrophic. The possibilities for carnage are virtually limitless. This is the new normal, as cliched as it sounds. I don't believe in a god, but God help us.

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2 hours ago, chakal said:

... for muslims in Birmingham (which didn't have anything to do with attacks)

Some people don't see it like that, and lump all Muslims together.

There's no shortage of thick people here. The Brexit vote has excited them into a xenophobic lather.

I feel sorry for Joe and Jane Average that suffer, directly or indirectly, in power struggles between the psychopaths that pull the strings.

Religion and geography don't come into it.

 

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43 minutes ago, maqroll said:

Yep. Any public gathering is fair game for a psychopath. A can of gasoline and a book of matches could be catastrophic. The possibilities for carnage are virtually limitless. This is the new normal, as cliched as it sounds. I don't believe in a god, but God help us.

I really worry that one of these days some nutter will hijack a petrol; tanker and, well, you know........

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6 hours ago, mjmooney said:

Of course, if this had happened in the USA, there would have been somebody there with a handgun to take out the driver... 

The NRA says what happened in Nice could have been stopped if everyone in the crowd also had a truck.

 

 

(Shamelessly stolen from twitter)

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So his father in Tunisia has revealed that he had a history of mental illness, and offered to get him psychiatric help. Couple that with the fact that he was reportedly very nominally Muslim, if that and had no history of radicalization or contact with any group...it could just be that he was just a madman that snapped and not the ISIS operative people were tagging him as. Alas, this seems to be a possibility explored only for white terrorists.

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20 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

So his father in Tunisia has revealed that he had a history of mental illness, and offered to get him psychiatric help. Couple that with the fact that he was reportedly very nominally Muslim, if that and had no history of radicalization or contact with any group...it could just be that he was just a madman that snapped and not the ISIS operative people were tagging him as. Alas, this seems to be a possibility explored only for white terrorists.

please stop saying the Nice attacks are nothing to do with Islam

In the wake of the Nice attacks people are already saying: "But the terrorist wasn't pious. See! It has nothing to do with Islam". 

Please stop.

Your good intentions towards us Muslims are only making the problem worse..

It's worth reading the article in full for a different take. It's by Maajid Nawaz, a former Islamic extremist who now specializes in deradicalisation. 

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Oh, I thought that link was going to show that he was affiliated with ISIS but it's just Majid Nawaz telling us to stop not assuming he's a jihadist...nice. Kind of proving my point there as literally the only thing we know about him that can link him to jihadism is the fact that he's Muslim.

I didn't say it has nothing to do with Islam, I clearly stated that it's a possibility that's not even being entertained and apparently shouldn't be entertained according to Nawaz and I'm assuming yourself. Meanwhile, the dude who killed Jo Cox while yelling Britain First for example was immediately labeled a mentally ill loner which seems to be the default assumption when it's a white person. That was my point.

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I don't see how that proves anything. Police making a similar assumption doesn't make it true. If that's all it takes to make the assumption, then again that's just proving my point.

In any case, all reports up til now point to him never being radicalized or having links to any organization. According to the Paris prosecutor at the press conference he was completely unknown to both French domestic and foreign intelligence officials. 

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I understand the point your making Keyblade even if it's not clear whether it's relevant to this case. I certainly think mental illness has a part to play in several of these tragedies. 

Which is another layer of complexity to throw on the pile. 

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22 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

.... Meanwhile, the dude who killed Jo Cox while yelling Britain First for example was immediately labeled a mentally ill loner which seems to be the default assumption when it's a white person. That was my point.

That whole thing is partly to do with patterns. Humans look for patterns in everything to try and understand the world around us. Unfortunately there are weekly occurrences of Muslim terror incidents across the world, mostly in the middle east, but some in Europe. So when another atrocity is done, where the perpetrator is in this instance a Tunisian brown Muslim person, there's an apparent fit with the pattern.

When the man killed the MP, there was no apparent tally with any pattern of other incidents, other than perhaps the far right andreas brehivik murder spree a few years ago in Norway.

I think this is largely how and why labels get appended to these horrors. Here's another religious fanatic......Here's another far right lone Wolf....

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Just now, blandy said:

That whole thing is partly to do with patterns. Humans look for patterns in everything to try and understand the world around us. Unfortunately there are weekly occurrences of Muslim terror incidents across the world, mostly in the middle east, but some in Europe. So when another atrocity is done, where the perpetrator is in this instance a Tunisian brown Muslim person, there's an apparent fit with the pattern.

When the man killed the MP, there was no apparent tally with any pattern of other incidents, other than perhaps the far right andreas brehivik murder spree a few years ago in Norway.

I think this is largely how and why labels get appended to these horrors. Here's another religious fanatic......Here's another far right lone Wolf....

Yep, I think that's how it happens too. It's just a bit of a dangerous line of thinking because it leads to the slippery slope of subconsciously assuming that all terrorists are Muslims and more worryingly, Muslims are sleeper cells ready to snap at any moment. I think the fact that people are actually telling us to not even entertain the idea that he might just not be a jihadist really underlines that.

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2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

....I think the fact that people are actually telling us to not even entertain the idea that he might just not be a jihadist really underlines that.

He's perhaps chosen the wrong incident to make his point, given we have no proof yet of the motive for this killing. I agree, I think though, with the gist of what he's saying around Islamic extremism.

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ISIS have now claimed the Nice attack. They don't claim things they haven't done or make threats they don't at least try to keep. 

Worth remembering there's documented evidence of recruiters taking a non practicing Muslim to full blown Jihadist in less than a few days. They're very good at what they do. 

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