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The ISIS threat to Europe


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All the peace loving Muslims need to wake up to the fact that their religion has been hijacked by violent maniacs. Whether it's fair or not, fanatical violence is now the worldwide image of their religion. If they want that to change they are going to have to do a lot more than simply say "That's not us, honestly". They need to take their religion back, somehow. Whether that is possible, or even whether the will is there, I have my doubts. But the alternative is going to be escalation of violence from the secular west.

Secular West? If only.

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All the peace loving Muslims need to wake up to the fact that their religion has been hijacked by violent maniacs. Whether it's fair or not, fanatical violence is now the worldwide image of their religion. If they want that to change they are going to have to do a lot more than simply say "That's not us, honestly". They need to take their religion back, somehow. Whether that is possible, or even whether the will is there, I have my doubts. But the alternative is going to be escalation of violence from the secular west.

What do you suggest?

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Expect more. 

 

Even though the security services have started to drip feed to the media info about the amount of islamic terrorist plots (although admittedly the vast majority never make it past the fantasy stage) it doesn't seem to have sunk in to the public consciousness yet. 

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All the peace loving Muslims need to wake up to the fact that their religion has been hijacked by violent maniacs. Whether it's fair or not, fanatical violence is now the worldwide image of their religion. If they want that to change they are going to have to do a lot more than simply say "That's not us, honestly". They need to take their religion back, somehow. Whether that is possible, or even whether the will is there, I have my doubts. But the alternative is going to be escalation of violence from the secular west.

Sadly, the knock on effect of these terrorist attacks are too often a suppression of civil rights in the secular west by our secular governments. More cameras, more intrusive laws being passed, self-censorship by intimidated media outlets, etc. The Islamists see this and know that they can essentially wreak havoc beyond just the immediate horror of a shooting or a bombing.

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Without religion people would just find other excuses to do evil.

 

sorry to pick you up on this useless, but I find this argument to be er'useless'. It doesn't mean anything. There will always be power struggles and there will always be conflicts fought, but that is no reason to stop fighting back, to stop trying to progress. There was a time when some in America or Europe may have thought that slavery would never end, that "well they'll always find someone else to oppress" so why bother trying to stop slavery. It's of course an absurd statement but my point is that, "there will be a replacement" is not a reason to not get rid of the original. You keep fighting, that is the baton we pass down to future generations.

 

There will be those with more power, influence occasional dark hearts, and there are those trying to resist. The more people you liberate from oppressive cultures and tyrannical philosophies the more power there is to fight back. In our western culture, whilst there are problems of xenophobia and racism that will always exist at some basic level, it is certainly no longer sanctioned by legal or cultural means. In the main we find it repugnant, same too with recent movements to liberate women from an overtly male dominated society ( just ssh, makemineavilla), or gay folk from homophobia. There are new problems that emerge and exist, but no one could argue that it is not right that we have evolved our social mores to prevent race, sex, or orientation being in any way a relevant factor to determining their personality or hierarchy in group society. 

 

the psycho-social issue with religion is just another issue. Religion by it's very precepts is exceptionally resistant through it's texts and structure to change ( slight risk of undermining the whole, 'god wrote / said it, can't argue with that' insane reasoning, that is far too conditional on "representatives" all agreeing to change it ). If you removed organised religion there would be no doubt other issues expected and unexpected that would arise, but at the same point you remove the possibility for citing this "authority" for spectacular bloodshed, bigotry and ignorance. There is an obstacle to science and. humane thought removed, if people don't feel an odd need to ignore evolution because mr vicar said so. There would be other schools of thought that arise and new oppositions would emerge, that is human nature, but that is also progress. You move on to the next fight. You destroy the shallow reasoning that similarly viewed blacks as inferior, women as housebound and gays as perverts. You say that hiding behind God is not **** good enough. 

 

It is a theoretical point I know, given how utterly entrenched the psychopathy is rooted into cultures and communities, dug deep into the social mileu of ritual and routine, but the argument that it's just a tool is not good enough, does not justify inaction. When you see ignorance, you cry out, when you see injustice you cry out, when you see abhorrence you promote tolerance and decency, where you see enclosed narrow minds you jar a great big **** wedge in there and push them wide open. 

 

 

It wasn't an argument and I didn't mean action shouldn't be taken just that the reason for the evils commited by individuals is something more deep rooted than religioin. Getting rid of religion wouldn't stop wars and what not. And no I'm not religious myself and I think people overall would be better of without it.

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Using fictional or non-fictional history to berate today's Muslims makes as much sense as using the Christian crusades to mock today's Christians, none! That was my point.

Why not? They follow the same text in the same fashion.

 

Where is that text you are referring to? Hidden under your bed? The Christian Crusades existed. The west invaded Iraq. They follow the same text.

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All the peace loving Muslims need to wake up to the fact that their religion has been hijacked by violent maniacs. Whether it's fair or not, fanatical violence is now the worldwide image of their religion. If they want that to change they are going to have to do a lot more than simply say "That's not us, honestly". They need to take their religion back, somehow. Whether that is possible, or even whether the will is there, I have my doubts. But the alternative is going to be escalation of violence from the secular west.

Sadly, the knock on effect of these terrorist attacks are too often a suppression of civil rights in the secular west by our secular governments. More cameras, more intrusive laws being passed, self-censorship by intimidated media outlets, etc. The Islamists see this and know that they can essentially wreak havoc beyond just the immediate horror of a shooting or a bombing.

Why do people keep saying secular west? Secular governments? I'd hardly describe the US or UK as being governed by secularists. The US is just as terrifying with their religious hysteria than most of their 'baddies' esque enemies.

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All the peace loving Muslims need to wake up to the fact that their religion has been hijacked by violent maniacs. Whether it's fair or not, fanatical violence is now the worldwide image of their religion. If they want that to change they are going to have to do a lot more than simply say "That's not us, honestly". They need to take their religion back, somehow. Whether that is possible, or even whether the will is there, I have my doubts. But the alternative is going to be escalation of violence from the secular west.

Secular West? If only.
It is, though. Despite "One nation under God" in the US, despite the "established" Church of England, etc. Religion is essentially an irrelevance in western politics. It's all about oil and money. Tke Islamic world has some very real reasons to oppose 'our' bloc, but it's all being done in the name of religion, not political reality.

Whatever 'our' faults, the current version of Islam is as rotten and disgusting as mediaeval catholicism was, and it needs its own reformation, desperately. I'd like to see all religion die the death it deserves, but that's not going to happen for a long while yet. In the meantime I'd settle for a Muslim Martin Luther or a Muslim Gandhi. Is there anybody with the bollocks to be that man? Let's face it, it's sadly unlikely to be a woman.

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Using fictional or non-fictional history to berate today's Muslims makes as much sense as using the Christian crusades to mock today's Christians, none! That was my point.

Why not? They follow the same text in the same fashion.

Where is that text you are referring to? Hidden under your bed? The Christian Crusades existed. The west invaded Iraq. They follow the same text.

You've misunderstood, you said how can we berate religious followers of today when they are different to those of yesteryear. I'm saying they are no different, and as such deserve the same kind of ridicule. Regardless of chosen religion.

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The US is just as terrifying with their religious hysteria

The US government is terrifying for a number of reasons, but religious hysteria is not one of them.

I differ in view but agree nonetheless :)

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I would say the US is a bigger threat to civilisation but that might be controversial

It may or may nor be controversial, but it's an opinion that will not be censored in the West, even in the US.

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All the peace loving Muslims need to wake up to the fact that their religion has been hijacked by violent maniacs. Whether it's fair or not, fanatical violence is now the worldwide image of their religion. If they want that to change they are going to have to do a lot more than simply say "That's not us, honestly". They need to take their religion back, somehow. Whether that is possible, or even whether the will is there, I have my doubts. But the alternative is going to be escalation of violence from the secular west.

bang on mooney.

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i could guarantee you that if i done a vote at my work place as to wether islam is evil and if half of muslims believe in terrorism of some sort then majority if not all would vote yes, if i done the whole town then the vast majority would say yes. this is what islam is up against, im not very well educated in a lot of these discussions but i know islam and muslims are not all like that and i know its a very small minority but im not afraid to say i dont trust islam. now back to what i said in terms of people voting and im pretty sure the whole nation would swing more to the yes than the no, its a shame but in my eyes the muslim world need to do more and show more.

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I'm more concerned about the growth of the far-right as a genuine alternative for middle-class voters than I am about extremist Muslims.

The former is a growing trend and this constant narrative of violent Muslims creates distrust and unease in the cosy suburbs.

Yes, that is true, and I agree.

But it's like that French journalist said today, two sets of fascists, each ramping up the level of hatred and violence.

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