maqroll Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Omariqy has a great point about hypocrisy, and I'd totally overlooked it. In France, if you deny the Jewish Holocaust or say something anti-Jewish, you will be jailed. So it seems France, and to a lesser extent other Western countries have a highly selective set of criteria used to determine what speech is worthy of protection under the law and what speech is deserving of punishment. I hope this situation peels open a broader debate about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Risso Posted January 8, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2015 By mocking the Prophet you are just going to cause offense and distress to people. Personally I don't get it. Well, that's just bad luck I'm afraid. All religion is fair game for mockery, and responding with threats of violence (and I've been on the receiving end end just for having a Saturday job in a book shop selling something the nutters considered offensive) shows just what a hateful influence religion has. I don't even know where to begin with the fact that people are offended by a cartoon of somebody who lived 1,400 years ago. Medieval bloody nonsense. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Omariqy has a great point about hypocrisy, and I'd totally overlooked it. In France, if you deny the Jewish Holocaust or say something anti-Jewish, you will be jailed. So it seems France, and to a lesser extent other Western countries have a highly selective set of criteria used to determine what speech is worthy of protection under the law and what speech is deserving of punishment. I hope this situation peels open a broader debate about it. Making a racist comment about Muslims in this country would rightly land you in bother too. It's not a hard concept to grasp, inciting racial hatred is bad. Funny cartoons about somebody who may or may not have existed 1,500 years ago is not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 By mocking the Prophet you are just going to cause offense and distress to people. Personally I don't get it. Well, that's just bad luck I'm afraid. All religion is fair game for mockery, and responding with threats of violence (and I've been on the receiving end end just for having a Saturday job in a book shop selling something the nutters considered offensive) shows just what a hateful influence religion has. I don't even know where to begin with the fact that people are offended by a cartoon of somebody who lived 1,400 years ago. Medieval bloody nonsense. If he lived at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 As abhorrant as racist speech is, making a comment should not land someone in jail. Anyone should have the right to stand on the sidewalk and say he hates Muslims, or he hates Christians, etc. Now if he says he hates Muslims and thinks they should die, that's when it becomes incitement, and incitement should be prosecuted. That people think someone should rightly be arrested for expressing an unpopular opinion is sad. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Being anti Jewish isn't anti semitic though is it? Yet it would cause more trouble to you if than if you said something anti Muslim? Muslims in France are already terribly persecuted. They are low class citizens in their own country. This is coming from one of my best friends and his brother who live in Bordeaux and Paris respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 I'm not of the opinion that religion has a "hateful influence" or similar anti-religion views but I do agree that people should have the freedom to mock religion (or any other belief or view for that matter) without fear - that's what free societies are all about. I say this as a Christian as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brumerican Posted January 8, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2015 By mocking the Prophet you are just going to cause offense and distress to people. Personally I don't get it. Well, that's just bad luck I'm afraid. All religion is fair game for mockery, and responding with threats of violence (and I've been on the receiving end end just for having a Saturday job in a book shop selling something the nutters considered offensive) shows just what a hateful influence religion has. I don't even know where to begin with the fact that people are offended by a cartoon of somebody who lived 1,400 years ago. Medieval bloody nonsense.If you don't like being laughed at then don't hold laughable beliefs. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 In your opinion though? How is what you said in any way tolerant. As long as you believe what I believe then we will be ok. That's not tolerant. Tolerance is accepting without ridicule someone else's beliefs even if they are different to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 Btw I don't want to go around muting everyone who says anything against Islam or other religions. That won't get us anywhere. By all means criticise and ridicule. Don't infringe on my right to be offended though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 8, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) Looking at what they are saying about these guys, they have a criminal record as long as your arm. I wouldn't be surprised if they are just a couple of ex-con psychos who think that their lives of crime will be vindicated by an act of holy terror. Edited January 8, 2015 by mjmooney 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 In your opinion though? How is what you said in any way tolerant. As long as you believe what I believe then we will be ok. That's not tolerant. Tolerance is accepting without ridicule someone else's beliefs even if they are different to yours.Why would anybody tolerate anything that abides by homophobia and misogyny ? Even the non violent aspects of Islam are disgusting IMO .Btw I don't want to go around muting everyone who says anything against Islam or other religions. That won't get us anywhere. By all means criticise and ridicule. Don't infringe on my right to be offended though.Be offended all you like but nobody has the right to not be offended . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) So, you don't think depicting all Muslims as suicide bombers is racist? I seem to remember Balotelli getting a game ban for anti-semitic cartoon. Where was the outcry for freedom of speech? Mocking every religion is legal almost.... Being stigmatized for being good with money is apparently worse than being stigmatized for being a terrorist. Edited January 8, 2015 by momo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 So no freedom of speech then? I won't argue about homophobic but misogyny is just a terrible misrerpresentation of a religion that did more for women than any other religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 8, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 8, 2015 (edited) The bottom line is the rule of law, not holy writ. If the law says it's OK to offend somebody with so-called blasphemy, then it is, end of. Edited January 8, 2015 by mjmooney 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 So, you don't think depicting all Muslims as suicide bombers is racist? I seem to remember Balotelli getting a game ban for anti-semitic cartoon. Where was the outcry for freedom of speech, and mocking every religion is legal. Being stigmatized for being good with money is apparently worse than being stigmatized for being a terrorist. Muslims aren't a race. To be fair I do think the FA are OTT about some of the things on Twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 So, you don't think depicting all Muslims as suicide bombers is racist? It's ignorant, but where has this happened outside of the far right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 So no freedom of speech then? I won't argue about homophobic but misogyny is just a terrible misrerpresentation of a religion that did more for women than any other religion.Yet even in 2015 , Islam still treats women like shit . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted January 8, 2015 Administrator Share Posted January 8, 2015 In your opinion though? How is what you said in any way tolerant. As long as you believe what I believe then we will be ok. That's not tolerant. Tolerance is accepting without ridicule someone else's beliefs even if they are different to yours. It's my belief that all religions should be mocked, how do you square that with the above? There is no human right to not be mocked and there never will be. If a religion can't stand up to being mocked then it's a pretty poor thing to live a life by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted January 8, 2015 Share Posted January 8, 2015 The bottom line is the rule of law, not holy writ. If the law says it's OK to offend somebody with so-called blasphemy, then it is, end of. There is a difference between blasphemy and racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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