TrentVilla Posted November 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted November 21, 2011 A question for the atheists: Since abandoning religion, do you feel more alone and listless? Do you miss the idea that it's not all completely pointless and that what you do will matter when you and everyone that knew you is dead? A fair question and one there has already been some good answers too but I will have a go as well. I would first say I didn't abandon religion or my religious views because they were never my views to begin with, I never opted to believe in the first place. I never chose to pray at school or sing songs of praise, I went to church on a Sunday because I was a cub then a scout not out of choice. I believe in God because teachers told me too. Then when I was about 13 I started to think for myself about creationism and science and decided there and then that I simply didn't believe in God. This was long long before in later life I started to have nothing but contempt for organisations like the Catholic Church. It was just a decision I made as a 13 year old that I didn't believe and that I wasn't going to be made to join in prayers any more. That was it. Since then I've never once felt more alone or listless as you put it. I've made the most of life in the knowledge you get one go at it and you should enjoy it because once its over its over. Does that make the loss of loved ones harder to deal with? Yes it does but then ultimately to me that is what religion and 'belief' are, one big emotional comfort blanket for those unable or unwilling to accept our nature and our shelf life. To me though making the decision to 'abandon' religion has made me stronger not weaker and it was a very natural process of growing up and thinking for myself. As far as impact goes I'd say realising that there was no Santa when I was 6 probably had more impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 As far as impact goes I'd say realising that there was no Santa when I was 6 probably had more impact. Thta was indeed a tough moment in life. If only I'd had Jesus to help me through it .... :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Never hear LOL@ Buddhists , or LOL@ Sikhs that much do you? As you've said, as long as religious views aren't forced on others and do not interfere in politics and proper science, then I'm okay with them. I have a friend whose mother is a really dogmatic Buddhist and forces her whole family to go vegan (when she's looking) and gets into fits easily as a result. So it's not just the fundamentalist Christians and Muslims I have a problem with - although admittedly, forcing certain dietary rules on others pales in comparison to suicide bombings and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted November 21, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 21, 2011 A question for the atheists: Since abandoning religion, do you feel more alone and listless? Do you miss the idea that it's not all completely pointless and that what you do will matter when you and everyone that knew you is dead? A fair question and one there has already been some good answers too but I will have a go as well. I would first say I didn't abandon religion or my religious views because they were never my views to begin with, I never opted to believe in the first place. I never chose to pray at school or sing songs of praise, I went to church on a Sunday because I was a cub then a scout not out of choice. I believe in God because teachers told me too. Then when I was about 13 I started to think for myself about creationism and science and decided there and then that I simply didn't believe in God. This was long long before in later life I started to have nothing but contempt for organisations like the Catholic Church. It was just a decision I made as a 13 year old that I didn't believe and that I wasn't going to be made to join in prayers any more. That was it. Since then I've never once felt more alone or listless as you put it. I've made the most of life in the knowledge you get one go at it and you should enjoy it because once its over its over. Does that make the loss of loved ones harder to deal with? Yes it does but then ultimately to me that is what religion and 'belief' are, one big emotional comfort blanket for those unable or unwilling to accept our nature and our shelf life. To me though making the decision to 'abandon' religion has made me stronger not weaker and it was a very natural process of growing up and thinking for myself. As far as impact goes I'd say realising that there was no Santa when I was 6 probably had more impact.Very similar for me. I was about 12 when it suddenly dawned on me that all the religious stuff I'd been fed AS FACT since I was a toddler was not fact at all. Maybe if they'd taught religion (including religions other than Xtianity) with the explanation that it's what SOME people believe, I might have given it more of a chance. But as it was I felt I'd been systematically misled and lied to. It made me angry. And still does. I made sure my own kids were made aware of the difference between religious beliefs and actual knowledge, from day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 A bit off topic but, Proper new age scientists(not just your old foggies of yesteryear) are more and more turning to creation(of some sort) due to flaws in evolution. They search in the bible and see it has substance not to be denied. Your signature - what does it mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted November 21, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 21, 2011 A bit off topic but, Proper new age scientists(not just your old foggies of yesteryear) are more and more turning to creation(of some sort) due to flaws in evolution. They search in the bible and see it has substance not to be denied. Your signature - what does it mean It's a quotation from Steak'n'Chips in that crazy Noah's Ark thread. Made me laugh so much I adopted it temporarily in an ironic sort of way. Time for a new one soon though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 21, 2011 Moderator Share Posted November 21, 2011 The thing for me is that I was Christian by birth, no belief. Had I been born in India or China or somewhere else I wouldn't be a Christian and I think that applies to people all over the world of all relgions. They haven't made a decision to believe they have been indoctrinated to do so which makes me question if their beliefs are actually their beliefs. If people studied all religions and then decided X religion seems right to me that is what I believe then I would have a little more respect for their 'beliefs'. As it is I view most peoples 'beliefs' as being little more than an accident of birth combined with either a lack of free thought or the need for the emotional crutch of religion. I genuinely can't understand how anyone places 'belief' ahead of logic and science and can't help but feel they are often kidding themselves. I certainly will not allow my kids to be believers because they are raised to be, if they make a decision to be believers once they've made their own mind up then so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 A question for the atheists: Since abandoning religion, do you feel more alone and listless? Do you miss the idea that it's not all completely pointless and that what you do will matter when you and everyone that knew you is dead? Good question. Abandoning is the wrong word though. The removal of a parasite is a more factual assessment of intellectual enlightenment I feel. Do I feel more alone, nope. In the educated world I am part of the biggest majority. The fact you ask atheists these questions makes me think that all is not well in the religious world, it's a bit.... "I have got a friend who's got this rash......." The job of an atheist as I see it is is to help people, it's basic human instinct. Cast your mind back a few million years.... I was sitting in my cave man house, a new family moves in next door from a land far far away, look a bit dodgy but hey ho. 1 st morning the new neighbour comes out with a wheel barrow moving rocks about, you know the type of thing, new house and everything, but his wheel is square and all his rocks are falling out all over the cave-de-sac, instinct tells me to help him and inform him of my new fangled futuristic round wheel design. He said "Thanks very much, I will replace my kids wheels as well. Nice one geezer". I said "Why are you using a square wheel ?"he said "My dad told me to, he said it's the only design available and I was young and I just believe what I am told". I was shocked but for no apparent reason in the back of my mind a song appeared, he continued "Did you dad say that as well ?..."he did"I said "I told him he was a clearing in the woods" If you really believe there is a god out there and someone tells you the truth, they are not having a go, they are just telling you about your square wheel and the square wheels you force your kids to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 In the educated world I am part of the biggest majority. Snob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 In the educated world I am part of the biggest majority. Snob No one has ever called me that before Everything else though. I'm touched Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legov Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Nah joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezza Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Note for mods: Could you please change the "Seikh" in the poll to say "Sikh"? As a Sikh myself, seeing that makes me feel a a little seick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leviramsey Posted November 22, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 22, 2011 The vast majority of believers are indoctrinated into the beliefs of their parents .Is that a choice ? I doubt it . As for the notion that we all have free will, well I have to disagree to some extent . Everything you do or think is the direct result of your physical brain making you carry out that action . Your brain is a biological computer and is only as good as the spec it has (I.e your genetic make up ) and the software it picks up through life (I.e. your environmental upbringing and education ). People seem to have this belief that there is a seperate "you" who is in control of their brain which can't be true as your brain is "you" . Absolute nonsense. (as is the whole of this thread) Good rebuttal . Why do you disagree when biologists and neuroscientists are very much of this opinion ? Hume's Fork. Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact? No. Commit it to the flames, for it can only contain sophistry and illusion. Every post in this thread fails both tines of the fork. They're not analytically true (negating them does not result in a contradiction), but there is no sense data to establish their truth either... thus they are irrational nonsense. (the entirety of this post fails both tines, as well, for the record) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 The vast majority of believers are indoctrinated into the beliefs of their parents .Is that a choice ? I doubt it . As for the notion that we all have free will, well I have to disagree to some extent . Everything you do or think is the direct result of your physical brain making you carry out that action . Your brain is a biological computer and is only as good as the spec it has (I.e your genetic make up ) and the software it picks up through life (I.e. your environmental upbringing and education ). People seem to have this belief that there is a seperate "you" who is in control of their brain which can't be true as your brain is "you" . Absolute nonsense. (as is the whole of this thread) Good rebuttal . Why do you disagree when biologists and neuroscientists are very much of this opinion ? Hume's Fork. Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact? No. Commit it to the flames, for it can only contain sophistry and illusion. Every post in this thread fails both tines of the fork. They're not analytically true (negating them does not result in a contradiction), but there is no sense data to establish their truth either... thus they are irrational nonsense. (the entirety of this post fails both tines, as well, for the record) How does any of this refute the idea that human brains work in relation to their genetic make up and environmental influences ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted November 22, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 22, 2011 For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted November 22, 2011 VT Supporter Share Posted November 22, 2011 I am my own god ...Satanist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerlad Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Religion is for gays and paedos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 22, 2011 Moderator Share Posted November 22, 2011 In the educated world I am part of the biggest majority. Snob No one has ever called me that before Everything else though. I'm touched Then you understand what it is like to grow up a Catholic boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I particularly enjoyed the 4thought on Channel 4 this evening, which was a short piece entitled "Should Creationism be taught in schools?". The philosophy lecturer giving his views ended by comparing creationists to the mentally ill. The way he described religious fundamentalists as being "locked in", you'd have sworn he'd been reading the Noah's Ark thread. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 In the educated world I am part of the biggest majority. Snob No one has ever called me that before Everything else though. I'm touched Then you understand what it is like to grow up a Catholic boy. I am supposed to be a Catholic so lucky escape there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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