lapal_fan Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: You can be a football manager and care about a club. My point is if you are so delluisioned with your work just walk away let someone else have a go and try. dont just let the club sink deeper and deeper while you just prod along. Also don't make out you were persuaded to stay on when you could have walked at any time. He probably had Lerner telling him "once the sale goes through, we'll be good". But the sale never came at the right time (for us fans). Lambert also has his own stuff going on. I dare say he lived in a big house with a big mortgage and couldn't afford to walk away from a million or two in compo - could/would you? I have no doubt that Lambert wanted villa to be in a good place, because he doesn't seem like a malicious person. The football was awful, the team was awful, Lambert looked like he'd given up, the players did and that all comes from the top. Everything took too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Kingman said: Nothing to see here bar the over reactions! Same thing was said for a long time while he was here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 4 hours ago, DCJonah said: Do you defend gabby and richards as much? Defend nzogbia as much? Lamberts always had far more of a defence than he deserved. You really need to let go of this weird “defence” thing. People aren’t Lambert supporters. Or Bruce supporters. Or Grealish supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 12 hours ago, lapal_fan said: He probably had Lerner telling him "once the sale goes through, we'll be good". But the sale never came at the right time (for us fans). Lambert also has his own stuff going on. I dare say he lived in a big house with a big mortgage and couldn't afford to walk away from a million or two in compo - could/would you? I have no doubt that Lambert wanted villa to be in a good place, because he doesn't seem like a malicious person. The football was awful, the team was awful, Lambert looked like he'd given up, the players did and that all comes from the top. Everything took too long. Lambert is a malicious person he wanted to be sacked and get the pay off. He gave us and didn't care at all. Bruce could have done the same when he was on the verge of the sack but he stuck at it showed passion and turned it around. That's a real manager not a loser like Lambert who just gave up and for me didnt care if we went down or not. He said he loved aston villa if he did he would have resigned or done whatever it takes to keep us up not give up like he did. Even the hopeless Sherwood managed to keep us up that year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 22 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Lambert is a malicious person he wanted to be sacked and get the pay off. He gave us and didn't care at all. Bruce could have done the same when he was on the verge of the sack but he stuck at it showed passion and turned it around. That's a real manager not a loser like Lambert who just gave up and for me didnt care if we went down or not. He said he loved aston villa if he did he would have resigned or done whatever it takes to keep us up not give up like he did. Even the hopeless Sherwood managed to keep us up that year You can't compare Bruce and Lambert. It's two completely different scenarios. Bruce has been given lots of money comparatively to Lambert. We should only see an upward trend with Bruce. Bruce didn't walk away either, so by your definition is malicious too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: You can't compare Bruce and Lambert. It's two completely different scenarios. Bruce has been given lots of money comparatively to Lambert. We should only see an upward trend with Bruce. Bruce didn't walk away either, so by your definition is malicious too. Bruce really has not. his one big signing was Hogan the rest were relatively low transfer fees. This year Bruce had to work with FFP. Funny the season Lambert spent the most is when the season gradually got worse. Look how many loand Bruce has had to work with and he has got it spot on. Lambert wasted money on rubbish like bennett, luna and kozak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 If you can't see the difference between the two scenarios then there's no point talking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2018 41 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Lambert is a malicious person he wanted to be sacked and get the pay off. He gave us and didn't care at all. By all accounts, Conte is waiting for his payoff too. Is he malicious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: By all accounts, Conte is waiting for his payoff too. Is he malicious? The majority of managers are basically waiting until they get sacked - they’re all malicious! It’s the nature of the job. I actually can’t remember the last time a Premier League manager just resigned with no payoff. Maybe someone can enlighten me? Edited February 9, 2018 by bobzy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: The majority of managers are basically waiting until they get sacked - they’re all malicious! It’s the nature of the job. I actually can’t remember the last time a Premier League manager just resigned with no payoff. Maybe someone can enlighten me? It doesn't happen often. The irony being Lambert apparently offered his resignation and was talked into not resigning by the board, which I bet the majority of managers don't do! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 David Moyes at Sunderland, Big Sam resigned too at Palace to retire though prob got survival bonus Marco Silva Hull All within last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 9 hours ago, bobzy said: You really need to let go of this weird “defence” thing. People aren’t Lambert supporters. Or Bruce supporters. Or Grealish supporters. Well you've added the label something supporter. To claim individuals aren't defended is just wrong. They clearly are, sometimes proven right (as with bruce recently) and sometimes proven ridiculous (as with the fuss over Gill or the idea lerner was getting ready to spend big again) And before i get the houllier than thou comment, i've been wrong to defend individuals in the past. I defended Sherwood far longer than i should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 19 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: By all accounts, Conte is waiting for his payoff too. Is he malicious? From what I can see Conte is still winning games and hasnt completely given up like Lambert so its not the same at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Zatman said: David Moyes at Sunderland, Big Sam resigned too at Palace to retire though prob got survival bonus Marco Silva Hull All within last year Well all of those were at the end of the season weren't they? Just like Lambert offered his resignation at the end of the season but was talked into staying on. Sounds like he tried to do "the right thing" and was convinced to give it another go. he couldn't hack it and eventually was sacked. I find the idea of people on here preaching that he should have resigned because it looked like we MIGHT be relegated and give up his compensation quite hypocritical. I don't think there's a person on this forum who would turn their back on a couple of million quid in that position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 20 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: By all accounts, Conte is waiting for his payoff too. Is he malicious? For me the big difference is how it effects the club. If we were sitting in midtable and lambert did the same i wouldn't be that angry over it. For me, it was the fact we were heading towards relegation and he was hanging round for a pay off while putting the future of the club at risk. There should come a point where a decent person would put something like a football club before their own personal finances. That's the thing that really gets to me. And then his latest comments just rub salt in the wound. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Just now, DCJonah said: For me the big difference is how it effects the club. If we were sitting in midtable and lambert did the same i wouldn't be that angry over it. For me, it was the fact we were heading towards relegation and he was hanging round for a pay off while putting the future of the club at risk. There should come a point where a decent person would put something like a football club before their own personal finances. That's the thing that really gets to me. And then his latest comments just rub salt in the wound. Well put Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2018 Just now, Demitri_C said: From what I can see Conte is still winning games and hasnt completely given up like Lambert so its not the same at all. Well you've made up that Lambert had given up. I'd say the evidence that Conte has given up is much stronger. They've won 1 of the last 5. His body language has completely changed, he says his future "isn't his problem". He blatantly doesn't want to be there. Chelsea probably don't want him but Abramovich doesn't want to keep paying off managers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: For me the big difference is how it effects the club. If we were sitting in midtable and lambert did the same i wouldn't be that angry over it. For me, it was the fact we were heading towards relegation and he was hanging round for a pay off while putting the future of the club at risk. There should come a point where a decent person would put something like a football club before their own personal finances. That's the thing that really gets to me. And then his latest comments just rub salt in the wound. Chelsea are in danger of dropping out of the Champions League places. Their form is in the toilet. It's all relative. it's not relegation but it's certainly affecting the club's future. Not just for financial impact, but the ability to attract a successor is damaged if they're not in the CL. I'd say the similarities are many. And I'd re-emphasise that the evidence for Conte having "given up" is far higher than the evidence that Lambert had given up. The difference is that you don't hate Conte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Just now, Stevo985 said: Chelsea are in danger of dropping out of the Champions League places. Their form is in the toilet. It's all relative. it's not relegation but it's certainly affecting the club's future. Not just for financial impact, but the ability to attract a successor is damaged if they're not in the CL. I'd say the similarities are many. And I'd re-emphasise that the evidence for Conte having "given up" is far higher than the evidence that Lambert had given up. The difference is that you don't hate Conte. Chelsea dropping out the top 4 is not going to effect them like relegation can effect the club. Leeds, forest and wednesday are proof of what can happen. I don't see spurs and liverpool as equally damaged. Think thats a ridiculous comparison. The evidence for lambert giving up is his own words. He knew he was going to be sacked, it was just a case of when and he was delighted when it happened. The difference is you choose to defend lambert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 9, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Chelsea dropping out the top 4 is not going to effect them like relegation can effect the club. Leeds, forest and wednesday are proof of what can happen. I don't see spurs and liverpool as equally damaged. Think thats a ridiculous comparison. The evidence for lambert giving up is his own words. He knew he was going to be sacked, it was just a case of when and he was delighted when it happened. The difference is you choose to defend lambert. It's all relative. It's still affecting the club's future. It's a very similar situation. Knowing you're going to be sacked is not giving up. You've invented that little connection. It might mean you lose some motivation or enthusiasm but it's not giving up. It certainly doesn't automatically mean that you should resign just because you think you're going to get sacked. In fact you could argue it's the complete opposite. If you know the sack is coming then why on EARTH would you resign? If anything you're more likely to resign if you're concerned about the future of the club if you think the sack ISN'T coming. I choose to defend Lambert on this point. It's clear you've exaggerated his comments due to your dislike of the man. Which is your right. I have the right to point out that I think you're being harsh. You seem to have interpreted the comments as Lambert saying "I was deliberately trying to get sacked so I could have some money". If that's what he meant then I'd be on your side. But I think those of us not clouded by our dislike of the man can see that's obviously not what he means. There are many MANY things that I won't defend Lambert on. Edited February 9, 2018 by Stevo985 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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