VillaCas Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The way I see it : 1) the financial constraints will not improve while Lerner is in charge 2) we can all pretty much agree that despite one of the lowest transfer budgets in the league, Lambert has built a team that should be capable of say, 10th-12th 3) he consistently cannot get the most out of those players and we seem to end up nearer relegation places (15th) 4) while a new manager may well be capable of getting this squad of players up to about 10th, it's unlikely that he will also have Lamberts eye for a player - managers that can pick up bargain players and get them to consistently over perform won't come to Villa, and if they do it won't be for long as every team would love a manager like this 5) if another manager doesn't have as good a transfer history as Lambert, our squad will gradually become weaker the longer they stay with us 6) a weaker squad will eventually get relegated, regardless of who's in charge Ask yourselves what you would rather, someone who can take the 18th best transfer budget, and buy players capable of getting 10th underperforming in 15th - or someone who will take the 18th best transfer budget, gradually turn our team into one that can only achieve 18th and inevitably get relegated? Now obviously it's not as simple as that, but I do worry if we sack Lambert. Yes on the field he's getting it wrong, but him getting it right off the field is what's saving us at the moment. To improve we would need to get a manager who is every bit as good in the transfer market as Lambert AND can consistently get the best out of players, and those managers are hard to find - given Lerners history of employing managers, how anyone trusts him to find that candidate is a mystery and IMO extremely unlikely. It's far more likely we would get some short term improvements before slipping further downwards. Again, nothing is certain, but I'd say that was a more likely scenario given Randy Lerners poor track record and the general difficulty in finding managers that can do that (see Ole Gunnar S... for an example of how easy it is to get wrong) We are underachieving based on the team we have, but based on the money we've spent we're probably about bang on. The best long term we could realistically expect to happen from signing a new manager (unless by some stroke of pure luck they turn out to be the next Fergie) is short term gain, followed by a gradual decline as our bargain, better quality players get replaced by players that aren't as good. End result being worse players getting largely the same results. That's realistic, worst case we go down, best case we get mid table. Is it worth the risk when the most realistic scenario sees us being the same as we are now but with worse players? I also find it ridiculous that people suggested Pulis, a true short term manager so desperate to keep his 'never been relegated' USP that he bails the second things don't go his own way or he's told he can't sign a first choice player - which would be as soon as a transfer window opens for us leaving us back at square one. I hate to say it with the boring football of late, but given the state of our club, Lambert and Villa are a good fit. The transfer budget and wage structure from the club should see us flirting with relegation, and that's exactly what we're doing. Changes can only come from the top and filter down, otherwise it's meaningless. .....I could'nt disagree with you more.Which part do you disagree with? most of it, particularly in relating to the mitigation you apportion to the manager. it is not to be denied that he has not had an easy time with finances. How many men have had wives who have spent recklessly and has cost them their marraiges? Randy Lerner trusted his managers to spend well.....they didn't and he rained the spending in( eventually)......Had they of spent well, he would have been pushing money in to their hands.....I am amazed at how many fans struggle to comprehend that FACT. He has had his fingers burnt and this manager is at the brunt of the failings of their predessors. Having said all of that, we still have a situation where most of our signings temporary or perminent have had form regress as opposed to progress. The problem is one of multiple contribution and there is no sign of the end of it yet. Ok, but I agree with that? The point of my post wasn't "Randy Lerner has never done anything for us and he only ever wanted to ruin us but Lambert is amazing and we're lucky to have him", if it was then I would have said it. I wasn't debating the reasons for Lerner withdrawing his funding, and I agree had MON spent it wisely we would be nowhere near this mess, but he didn't and the rest is history, I was simply stating he has withdrawn it, leaving us with a meagre transfer budget and wage cap and this shows no sign of changing. My argument (and I hate to think of myself as "pro Lambert" because like anyone else I'm bored at the football on display and not happy with results) is that given the constraints that we have and will continue to have it will take a very shrewd managerial appointment to improve us long term. I don't see the point in replacing Lambert for a short term gain, then be left well and truly without a paddle, we may as well stick with what we've got until we are prepared to change from top to bottom. My local pub has been through a dozen landlords in the last ten years all with big new ideas and plans to make it great, every single time there was a short term boost with loads of people going for it before it just dwindled again as it was the same pub, the same prices, the same everything just with a different person there. The brewery have since come in and done a £500,000 renovation, they employed the most rude and unlikeable manager that I've ever seen but the place is booming now - now obviously a football club is a different proposition from a pub but the principle is the same - changes HAVE to come from the top or else nothing really changes, it'll just be a different wrapper for the same old crap Do I think we should stick with Lambert forever? God no. But until we are ready to change the way the club is run I don't see any point, anything we do is short term and I can't see it benefiting us. Once things change, either by Randy selling, or by him fully committing, then yes we should sack Lambert and get a new man for a new era and a fresh start. Until then I can only see the same old drivel we're getting now, and (touch wood) at least Lamberts drivel has kept us in the league so far, someone else's drivel may not have This is very close to my thoughts. The easiest thing is to make this all about Lambert but for me that is a side issue - unless we see another manager in exactly the same circumstances, its impossible to say whether he is "clueless", as proposed by some (many?) or doing ok in the circumstances. He's just about keeping our heads above water - many would like to take the chance that a different, random, as yet unnamed manager will come in and with the same resources send use flying up the table. My concern is that there are plenty more Felix Magath-types who would have the opposite effect (Curbishly? McCarthy? Little!?) Horrible times whilst we are in this limbo whilst Lerner continues his impossibly slow exit from the club 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seannnc Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The Independent are also reporting the Paul Lambert 'I can handle the pressure' quote. Even these little things are starting to wind me up. Also reports of Jack Grealish going out on loan. I hope Lambert doesn't let him go, I think he needs to get more first team football but i'd much prefer that to be in our colours. I think we need a bit of hunger in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The Independent are also reporting the Paul Lambert 'I can handle the pressure' quote. Even these little things are starting to wind me up. Also reports of Jack Grealish going out on loan. I hope Lambert doesn't let him go, I think he needs to get more first team football but i'd much prefer that to be in our colours. I think we need a bit of hunger in the team. I think Grealish and Robinson should both go back out on loan. Lambert clearly does not intend to play them, and all that is happening at the moment is that their development is being interrupted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Richard Posted January 19, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted January 19, 2015 I dont think Lambert should be sacked and I sont think he will be and the reason for both is linked I do not think there is a manager we have had in the last thirty years who could have worked under these circumstances and basically done as well in the transfer market and retain our status. The squad of players we have is good, will get better for our future and if sold will earn us more money. He will not be sacked as the club is in limbo, we will not attract anyone better or more able, someone else will want to bring their own players in which will mean dismantling this and starting again, ie transition and transition at this point will mean relegation Lerner does not want to spend the money to sack him, either sack him money or transfer money it is the same money. This is why Lerner is worse than Ellis The situation we are in as a club we would never have been like this under Ellis 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The Independent are also reporting the Paul Lambert 'I can handle the pressure' quote. Even these little things are starting to wind me up. Also reports of Jack Grealish going out on loan. I hope Lambert doesn't let him go, I think he needs to get more first team football but i'd much prefer that to be in our colours. I think we need a bit of hunger in the team. I think Grealish and Robinson should both go back out on loan. Lambert clearly does not intend to play them, and all that is happening at the moment is that their development is being interrupted. Grealish has at least had some pitch time though, although nowhere near enough. How can Lambert know what impact Robinson could make without every actually giving him proper game time. It's been the same with Burke, Calder, Johnson and many others who appear in the squad but never get even a faint whiff of football. Which maybe understandable if we were any good but considering we aren't................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) I dont think Lambert should be sacked and I sont think he will be and the reason for both is linked I do not think there is a manager we have had in the last thirty years who could have worked under these circumstances and basically done as well in the transfer market and retain our status. The squad of players we have is good, will get better for our future and if sold will earn us more money. He will not be sacked as the club is in limbo, we will not attract anyone better or more able, someone else will want to bring their own players in which will mean dismantling this and starting again, ie transition and transition at this point will mean relegation Lerner does not want to spend the money to sack him, either sack him money or transfer money it is the same money. This is why Lerner is worse than Ellis The situation we are in as a club we would never have been like this under Ellis It just feels like will we will walk the tight rope of relegation until a buyer comes along or Lerner changes his mind. Unfortunately I think relegation will come first. I also feel that when Lambert does get the tactics right and motivates the players it usually unravels due to injuries, general squad quality and suspensions. Any fact any momentum is quickly lost or undermined. It must be impossible to motivate a group of players every week who pretty much know they are going to lose or draw. If you always lose how can you believe in yourself or the manager coaching you? The perfect storm of cheap gamble but ultimately bad signings, bomb squad retractions, lack of funding, assistant manager/coach merry go round, alleged bullying, club for sale, uninterested owner, limited funds, endless injuries to important players/lack of squad depth, suspensions and God knows what else, is something that most managers would walk away from. Doesn't mean I rate or want Lambert to stay, but kudos for him carrying on when all around him is a near apocalypse of bullsh*t. Edited January 19, 2015 by VillanousOne 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The Independent are also reporting the Paul Lambert 'I can handle the pressure' quote. Even these little things are starting to wind me up. Also reports of Jack Grealish going out on loan. I hope Lambert doesn't let him go, I think he needs to get more first team football but i'd much prefer that to be in our colours. I think we need a bit of hunger in the team. I think Grealish and Robinson should both go back out on loan. Lambert clearly does not intend to play them, and all that is happening at the moment is that their development is being interrupted. Grealish has at least had some pitch time though, although nowhere near enough. How can Lambert know what impact Robinson could make without every actually giving him proper game time. It's been the same with Burke, Calder, Johnson and many others who appear in the squad but never get even a faint whiff of football. Which maybe understandable if we were any good but considering we aren't................ Because Lambert sees them in training every single day? If he knows that they are not even half the players that we take them to be at the minute then surely Lambert knows what impact they could have on the team, i.e none. Thats not to say of course that Gabby has any impact... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) It just feels like will we will walk the tight rope of relegation until a buyer comes along or Lerner changes his mind. Unfortunately I think relegation will come first. I also feel that when Lambert does get the tactics right and motivates the players it usually unravels due to injuries, general squad quality and suspensions. Any fact any momentum is quickly lost or undermined. It must be impossible to motivate a group of players every week who pretty much know they are going to lose or draw. If you always lose how can you believe in yourself or the manager coaching you? The perfect storm of cheap gamble but ultimately bad signings, bomb squad retractions, lack of funding, assistant manager/coach merry go round, alleged bullying, club for sale, uninterested owner, limited funds, endless injuries to important players/lack of squad depth, suspensions and God knows what else, is something that most managers would walk away from. Doesn't mean I rate or want Lambert to stay, but kudos for him carrying on when all around him is a near apocalypse of bullsh*t. Exactly this. I live in hope though that we don't fall off because if we do, I fear its game over for us for a long time in terms of being a Premier League club. Edited January 19, 2015 by sexbelowsound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seannnc Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The Independent are also reporting the Paul Lambert 'I can handle the pressure' quote. Even these little things are starting to wind me up. Also reports of Jack Grealish going out on loan. I hope Lambert doesn't let him go, I think he needs to get more first team football but i'd much prefer that to be in our colours. I think we need a bit of hunger in the team. I think Grealish and Robinson should both go back out on loan. Lambert clearly does not intend to play them, and all that is happening at the moment is that their development is being interrupted. Grealish has at least had some pitch time though, although nowhere near enough. How can Lambert know what impact Robinson could make without every actually giving him proper game time. It's been the same with Burke, Calder, Johnson and many others who appear in the squad but never get even a faint whiff of football. Which maybe understandable if we were any good but considering we aren't................ Because Lambert sees them in training every single day? If he knows that they are not even half the players that we take them to be at the minute then surely Lambert knows what impact they could have on the team, i.e none. Thats not to say of course that Gabby has any impact... Agreed, I think if he has no intention of playing them, then being loaned out is what's best to ensure their development. However, I would rather see Lambert select a hungry Grealish, rather than some players he selects week in week out, players who haven't gone hungry for awhile... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 The Independent are also reporting the Paul Lambert 'I can handle the pressure' quote. Even these little things are starting to wind me up. Also reports of Jack Grealish going out on loan. I hope Lambert doesn't let him go, I think he needs to get more first team football but i'd much prefer that to be in our colours. I think we need a bit of hunger in the team. I think Grealish and Robinson should both go back out on loan. Lambert clearly does not intend to play them, and all that is happening at the moment is that their development is being interrupted. Grealish has at least had some pitch time though, although nowhere near enough. How can Lambert know what impact Robinson could make without every actually giving him proper game time. It's been the same with Burke, Calder, Johnson and many others who appear in the squad but never get even a faint whiff of football. Which maybe understandable if we were any good but considering we aren't................ Because Lambert sees them in training every single day? If he knows that they are not even half the players that we take them to be at the minute then surely Lambert knows what impact they could have on the team, i.e none. Thats not to say of course that Gabby has any impact... Agreed, I think if he has no intention of playing them, then being loaned out is what's best to ensure their development. However, I would rather see Lambert select a hungry Grealish, rather than some players he selects week in week out, players who haven't gone hungry for awhile... We tend to over-rate our youngsters and others who are not playing. Bacuna/Grealish/Bannan/Salifou etc etc is always just what we need until they actually play then its someone else. Until Lerner goes everything else is just rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 I do not think there is a manager we have had in the last thirty years who could have worked under these circumstances and basically done as well in the transfer market and retain our status. The squad of players we have is good, will get better for our future and if sold will earn us more money. Lerner does not want to spend the money to sack him, either sack him money or transfer money it is the same money. This is why Lerner is worse than Ellis Richard just 3 points from above. 1. Lambert must be a bloody good manager to be better than some of the managers we have had in the last 30 years. 2. If we have a good squad of players and Lambert is the manager you claim him to be why are we doing so badly? 3. If he is the best manager we have had in the last 30 years why would Lerner want to sack him? money or not? Lerner is worse than Ellis because for all of his multitude of failing there isnt a cat in hells chance he would have left Lambert in charge for so long (as good a manager as you say he is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Can anyone look at our squad and honestly say 12 points from 18 games is the absolute best they could achieve? If the answer is yes then I assume you're related to lambert. Its quite clear its not so I think at the moment its pretty pointless to keep banging on about financial restrictions and his working conditions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) Can anyone look at our squad and honestly say 12 points from 18 games is the absolute best they could achieve? If the answer is yes then I assume you're related to lambert. Its quite clear its not so I think at the moment its pretty pointless to keep banging on about financial restrictions and his working conditions. Why ask the question if you are going to tell people the answer that you expect? Edited January 19, 2015 by sexbelowsound 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 (edited) I do not think there is a manager we have had in the last thirty years who could have worked under these circumstances and basically done as well in the transfer market and retain our status. The squad of players we have is good, will get better for our future and if sold will earn us more money. Lerner does not want to spend the money to sack him, either sack him money or transfer money it is the same money. This is why Lerner is worse than Ellis Richard just 3 points from above. 1. Lambert must be a bloody good manager to be better than some of the managers we have had in the last 30 years. 2. If we have a good squad of players and Lambert is the manager you claim him to be why are we doing so badly? 3. If he is the best manager we have had in the last 30 years why would Lerner want to sack him? money or not? Lerner is worse than Ellis because for all of his multitude of failing there isnt a cat in hells chance he would have left Lambert in charge for so long (as good a manager as you say he is). Except he doesnt say that he is the best manager in the last thirty years does he? He says that any manager from the last thirty years would struggle in he current situation. Totally different. Edited January 19, 2015 by VillaCas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Richard just 3 points from above. 1. Lambert must be a bloody good manager to be better than some of the managers we have had in the last 30 years. 2. If we have a good squad of players and Lambert is the manager you claim him to be why are we doing so badly? 3. If he is the best manager we have had in the last 30 years why would Lerner want to sack him? money or not? 1. That isn't what he said 2. The manager you claim he claims isn't what he claims 3. That isn't what he said. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted January 19, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 19, 2015 Except he doesnt say that he is the best manager in the last thirty years does he? He says that any manager from the last thirty years would struggle in he current situation. Totally different. No manager in the last 30 years could do better than 11 goals in 22 games? Or 10 losses at home in a season? Or 5 consecutive losses without scoring? Or a win percentage of 26%? Really? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villanun Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 After the Leicester game Lambert talked about the unrealistic expectations of the fans - our expectations outweighing the reality at the club, apparently - but the match against Liverpool put the lie to that. Villa fans don't expect to win the league. We don't expect European football. Hell, for most of us a top half finish seems like a distant dream. No, all we expect from our club.even in the current situation, is for the players to bare their teeth, show some attacking intent, and play some entertaining football. The lift when Gil came on against Liverpool and we starred playing more directly was palpable, and it wasn't just amongst the fans - the players obviously enjoyed it too, so it appears that they're as bored of Lambert's passing game as everyone else. That's all anyone really wants right now; to be entertained and, if were going to lose, to go down fighting. If Lambert doesn't understand that then he's more delusional than I already thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 He's doing himself nothing but damage at the moment. He won't turn down three years of compensation though, and why should he! He'll be having a break of at least a year from PL football when he does leave, no one will touch him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Except he doesnt say that he is the best manager in the last thirty years does he? He says that any manager from the last thirty years would struggle in he current situation. Totally different. No manager in the last 30 years could do better than 11 goals in 22 games? Or 10 losses at home in a season? Or 5 consecutive losses without scoring? Or a win percentage of 26%? Really? Maybe, maybe not, but no manager in the last 30 years has had to manage the club with a budget more suited to relegation candidates. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villanun Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Can anyone look at our squad and honestly say 12 points from 18 games is the absolute best they could achieve? If the answer is yes then I assume you're related to lambert. Its quite clear its not so I think at the moment its pretty pointless to keep banging on about financial restrictions and his working conditions. Why ask the question if you are going to tell people the answer that you expect? To prove a theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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