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Tactics - what, why, how?


Dodgyknees
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There are some comments in the Grealish thread about tactics. I am starting a new thread for people to talk about how they feel we set up/play.

 

The statement was that we are tactically poor. 

 

dn1982 (no relation) said:

 

Tactically? We beat Liverpool because of good tactics. Don't let the last 4 results take away from the first 4. Now we have nearly finished the run from hell. (Spurs next week) I hope to see Jack getting more game time and hopefully a couple of starts. Having to play the top 6 in 7 games is unheard of and not games where you can throw him in. He needs to be in the bench at least every game.

 

And my thoughts are;

 

In reality there are probably 6-8 teams we could/should beat over the rest of the season (not including points we have now, also including home/away games - so although there are 6-8 teams, we are looking at double that in games (roughly). You'd hope we would also get a few lucky results too. 

 

We will be safe - but for me that is not enough now. We should be aiming to be further up the table.

 

The thing that worries me is how impotent we look. Gabby, N'Zog and a few others are being carried by the team - and it shows. Also we seem naive in many ways and we seem to have one answer - the same answer - for every question. We need to expand the way we play and stop being so predictable.

 

To add to this - I also feel that although we kept Liverpool quiet and won the game, this tactic will not work against a) the teams who sit deep against us and B) teams who work out how to play against us - when put under lots of pressure (ex: Man City, Chelsea) who have very good attacking players, we do crack. This narrows down the teams this will work against to those who are struggling up front.

 

- Can we expand? Are we really only able to play one way?

Edited by limpid
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Personally I think at the start of the season our approach was to press high up the field to win the ball in an attacking position.

However, during since we have been playing the top rated sides (including Liverpool even though we won). We have dropped further and further back and our approach has been one of containment, limiting the amount of space around the area for the opposition to work in. It has probably been out plans to counter, but we have barely done that. Personally I don't think Westwood and Cleverly together move the ball quick enough for fast breaks. And would play one or the other and not both together.

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We play counter-attacking football much like we did under MON. We let the other team have the ball and try to catch them on the break. It's an easy tactic to suss out and everyone but the top teams play in a style that renders it generally ineffective. The only reason the top teams don't is because they are arrogant enough to think that they can outplay us with their way that they like to play -- and for the most part they do. The reason we either get a shock result, or at least play well but lose, against the top teams is because they commit more men forward and probably get a little complacent during the game due to the sheer amount of possession they generally have.

You cannot play the way we play and expect consistency and a decent run of results, especially with the lack of quality we have in so many parts of the pitch. There are very few players in the world who can defend to a high standard and maintain 100% concentration for an entire 90 minutes. Needless to say we cannot afford this kind of player. Sometimes we'll have a combination of our defenders playing amazingly well and luck, but not often.

We have a lack of creativity in midfield and a lack of quality up front with the exception of Benteke, but a large part of it is down to the manager and his boring and negative tactics and training. We're clearly missing a coach who can get the players to be positive and think outside the box to create an opening. It's no longer a matter of not having the players because our squad has improved from the last two seasons, so it must be the style of play and the training methods that make us toothless.

A new manager with a more continental approach please. I'm convinced the right manager and coaching staff could get a number of our players playing much more stylish and effective attacking football. If Randy were to back him with even the little money he's given to Lambert as of late, we could improve even moreso.

There's no excuse now. There are plenty of other teams with the same finances if not less so that play a better brand of football than we do. For the most part we are boring and predictable. If these other teams can have a go, why can't we? Aren't we all sick and tired of watching a Villa game with barely an attack let alone a shot on target? Games where the opposition crash against out defence time and time again and you know it's only going to be a matter of time?

I've never been so apathetic towards the club as I am now. I can't help but care, I'm a passionate fan and I always will, but **** me we are crap and it's depressing. If I took as much of an interest in Villa as I have throughout the rest of my life then I'd truly be a miserable bastard to be around.

Great post :thumb:

Accurate post :thumb: :thumb:

We are stagnant.

The manager needs to pull his finger out. He's sadly managed to convince many it's impossible to pass the football, and it's probably leaked through to the team.

He will never get a better job that this. Don't waste it Paul.

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We play counter-attacking football much like we did under MON.

I can think of at least one important difference between the two managers...

 

 

I don't mean to say they're identical, they're most definitely not in a number of ways, but the style of play is comparable. MON had better players and was a better motivator it would appear, and Lambert has had to work to some very strict conditions so he is not without my sympathy entirely.

 

I just don't believe in his vision for the team and I've had enough. Nice guy, worked to some very tight and somewhat unfair demands but hasn't made enough progress and has made too many avoidable mistakes for my liking. I won't deny that Lerner is the bigger problem, but he doesn't appear to be going anywhere any time soon.

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I think the tactics side of things are the most disappointing aspect of lamberts time at the club.  When he joined I was excited, mainly due to the reputation he had for changing formations, team selections and approaches to games based on the opposition.  But i've not seen anything like that from him.  For the most part of his time here we've played the same way regardless of if our form is good or bad, regardless of who we are playing and regardless of who we have available for selection.  As a manager he has not been able to improve the way we play with signings and coaching.

 

I don't think a future under lambert will see us improve as i don't think he's the manager i thought we were getting a few years ago.  

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I'd be tempted to go back to just a flat, simple 4-4-2 where everyone knows there job and there position.  However, I would not be playing 4-4-2 with Gabby or Andi on the wing which I could see Lambert doing. The only issue with this for me is the weakness on the right wing and potentially getting over run in the middle.

 

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The thing which irritates me a lot is as if we don't want to score. We just seem to rely on counter attacks and if the opponents let us have possession instead we play like headless chickens. Watching the Burnley match atm and yes they lack quality but they still try to get something by pressing and attacking. Every time we play I pray for us to not concede, I have no expectations regarding us scoring which is scary. I've begin to see draws as wins and wins as miracles.. 

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I still support lambo, although firm reasons why are pretty thin !

What is becoming impossible to bear is our - increasingly isolated - 'style'........I'm not sure there is a single side left playing a less attractive or attacking way.

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I still support lambo, although firm reasons why are pretty thin !

What is becoming impossible to bear is our - increasingly isolated - 'style'........I'm not sure there is a single side left playing a less attractive or attacking way.

 

 

There isn't.  The one and only defence for Lambert staying is that I wouldn't trust Lerner to pick his nose, never mind another manager.  But that's not to say that Lambert isn't shite in every single possible way.

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