Autumn / Winter Travel Plans - Advice Needed

[Delphouneso]

The missus and I are planning a trip hopefully beginning November (as soon as possible basically but allowing for 6-8 weeks for vaccinations) but can't decide where to go.

 

We have a budget of around £2,000 (each) and I was hoping for some advice on whether the following plans would be affordable, and some suggestions of things to do whilst we're there. These are our current options (but I'm open to suggestions):

 

Option A - Central America

 

We reckon we could afford a two month trip covering Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, and Panama. (We plan on skipping Honduras and El Salvador as I've heard we wouldn't be missing much anyway and the missus is a bit concerned about it being dangerous). We'd like to include Cuba in this as well but aren't sure whether it would be an affordable option with the added flight expense. Another concern with this trip is the expense of flying out of Panama, but a return flight to Mexico would mean travelling all the way back up from Panama, is there a better round trip way of doing this?

 

Option B - India/Nepal/Tibet

 

Again probably a two month trip, however I'm concerned that may not be long enough to cover all of India and trips through Nepal and up to Tibet. Also I'd always planned to do the trip to Base Camp if I ever went to this region but a) I don't think I'm fit enough at the moment, it adds further expense with the cost of the gear involved etc. and that's not something I really want to miss out on in case I never get chance to return to the region.

 

Option C - South America

 

This is the trip that both of us really want to do, but to cover all of it on a budget of £2,000 would appear to be impossible. Any suggestions? I'm a TEFL qualified teacher so I'd toyed with the idea of turning this into a much longer trip with me trying to pick up work over there to fund each leg of the trip but that's probably easier said than done, anyone have any experience with that?

 

Option D - Your Suggestions!

 

Open to anywhere really that we can afford to go for 2-3 months on our budget. Other than Thailand/Cambodia etc as the missus has not long got back from making that trip.

 

Also I've read about having to book things like the Inca Trail way in advance, are there any other things we'd need to book in advance or risk missing out on?

 

We're in panic mode right now because until we decide where to go we can't book vaccinations!

[tonyh29]

A) Iberia fly direct Madrid to Panama  .. you should be able to get an Open Jaw ticket with BA (One World) meaning you could fly London to Mexico and Panama to London (via madrid) as a return ticket far , rather than 2 singles 

 

I'm not sure about flights between the other countries but Skyscanner will be your friend to find these out

 

with 2 months then you could look at the Pan American highway from Mexico for a lot of your journey , but I believe it is slow going (long border crossings)

 

Tibet you will need a Chinese visa for and then permission to travel .. it's best not to mention Tibet at the time you apply for your Chinese visa though visa it can result in your application being turned down

 

take the train to Tibet from Xinging to Lhasa  ( google Qinghai-Tibet Railway )  .. one of the most amazing things you will ever do

( hopefully this link works ..has a few pics of Tibet and the train)

 

I booked my Tibet train with these people

http://www.accesstibettour.com/

 

My mate and I were the only westerners on the train as it was peak time and they sell all the tickets to the Chinese .. they were helpful and clearly very good at what they did .. even the Chinese on the train we spoke to couldn't believe we'd got tickets

 

I think you want the train up .. taking the train down means it's dark when you get to the good stuff  , your train above the clouds for example )

 

 

India .. you can just rock up get a hotel and then when you are ready to move on arrange a taxi / care to take you to the next place  ... you will haggle and agree a price and then the bloke will haggle more on arrival for more money  .. so consider using an agency and pre-book a lot of it  .. you'll be sick of haggling by the end of your trip

 

my India trip is attached , just gives you a rough outline of what can be done if you have it pre-arranged and a few cities that you can google and see if they are worth it ( Darjeeling would be my number 1 choice

 

 

I used a company called India Invites ... they were reliable and will work to a budget if you tell them roughly what you want to do 

 

some India pics here :

 

 

 

Nepal - been 3 times now   , no doubt there will be a 4th visit at some point

 

people go a bit overboard here .. we were in shorts and t-shirts most of the time .. all you really need are some clothes and a decent pair of hiking boots ... think of your poor Sherpa carrying everything , leave the hair-dryer and portable TV at home  .. you really don't need to buy anything fancy , maybe buy a sleeping bag in KTM when you arrive ( you don't want to lug it around for 2 months whilst you travel )  but I'm sure I never used mine , the tea houses supply beds with blankets and usually have a warm fire on the go as well

 

 

I've done the base camp trek and also the Annapurna trek   ... Annapurna is a more gentle  trek and arguably better ( spend a day or so at Pokhara before and after ) BUT it doesn't give you a view of Everest  , so base camp has to be the first choice .. with 2 months you could consider both though  ... Lukla airport will scare the pants of you so hope you aren't a nervous flyer

( Ps , also do the Everest view flights you see advertised in Nepal , well worth it )

 

 

When i went to Base Camp i was super mega fit .. and I struggled to the point I got airlifted off the mountain by helicopter with altitude sickness ( after spending around 10 hours in a gammow bag having my life saved !!)

 

I'm now quite unfit and have been on higher treks and found them much easier .. I'm of the view that the fitter you are the more you will struggle with the altitude  .. so stick to pies and drink beer

 

 

 

 

C) check out the LAN pass and you will get a lot of flights for your money  ...I actually booked all my flights on BA's website as LAN is part of the one world alliance  

I don't think £2k will be enough though if you factor in your return fare from the UK

 

This was what I did .. again just an idea with 2 months you can obviously take your time and travel by coach rather than air

 

some pics here :

 

take the train to Machu Picchu .. the Inca trail I've heard quite often gets blocked  .. the trian gives soem great views .. it leaves Cusco and zig zags it's way out .. after about an hour and you can still see the station you just departed from 

 

 

D)

Mongolia as part of your trip  ... Trans Siberian Mongolia to Beijing is pretty cool , though after a while it gets a little monotonous ... the Gobi desert is as it says on the tin so other than count sand it gets a bit samey after about 14 hours

 

with 2 months you can also see plenty of China as well  whilst you are in that general region

 

China is arguably the best country on the planet for visiting as a tourist

 

also .. rob a bank and take in Bhutan as part of your trip  ... it's still relatively closed to tourists ( well just hard work to get in mainly) but it will open up soon and then get ruined

 

 

 

Sorry it it's a bit long   and hopefully the links above all work .. if you have any questions i'm always happy to help ... travel is my hobby after all

Edited September 8, 2014 by tonyh29

[Delphouneso]

Thanks Tony, at work at the moment but will delve in to all of that later!

One quick point regarding Base Camp, I have read in a few different places that people who are unfit (smokers in particular) tend to deal with altitude sickness better than others, so maybe I'd be okay after all!

[Delphouneso]

Having read through your (very informative) post Tony (great pictures too!) I think we've decided on option B. I think we'd both got our hearts set on South America but realistically it's just not affordable on our budget.

 

So, a very rough itinerary:

 

Fly into China > Xining to Lhasa train > Bhutan > Nepal (+ Base Camp / Annapurna) > India > Fly home (as I said, very rough!)

 

I was hoping you could answer me a few (more) questions:

 

I've looked at flying into Beijing then getting a train to Xining (£50ish train fare from what I can gather), would you recommend doing this or is there an airport closer to Quinghai? I like the idea of spending a few days in Beijing first, but it means getting a 20 hour train to Xining, to then get another 20 hour train to Lhasa, unless it's worth spending a day or two in Xining?

 

What's the overland travel like between these countries? A very quick flight search came up with an open jaw ticket LON > BJS / DEL > LON for £426, obviously we'll be getting the train from Xining to Lhasa, but would you recommend flying between the other countries?

 

Last one: Are internal flights round India cheap/expensive? I notice in your India itinerary you flew from place to place, was that due to it being an easier option or down to time constraints?

 

One more: You mentioned Bhutan being difficult/complicated to enter, is there anything specific we need to know in regard to that?

[tonyh29]

Having read through your (very informative) post Tony (great pictures too!) I think we've decided on option B. I think we'd both got our hearts set on South America but realistically it's just not affordable on our budget.

 

So, a very rough itinerary:

 

Fly into China > Xining to Lhasa train > Bhutan > Nepal (+ Base Camp / Annapurna) > India > Fly home (as I said, very rough!)

 

I was hoping you could answer me a few (more) questions:

 

I've looked at flying into Beijing then getting a train to Xining (£50ish train fare from what I can gather), would you recommend doing this or is there an airport closer to Quinghai? I like the idea of spending a few days in Beijing first, but it means getting a 20 hour train to Xining, to then get another 20 hour train to Lhasa, unless it's worth spending a day or two in Xining?

 

What's the overland travel like between these countries? A very quick flight search came up with an open jaw ticket LON > BJS / DEL > LON for £426, obviously we'll be getting the train from Xining to Lhasa, but would you recommend flying between the other countries?

 

Last one: Are internal flights round India cheap/expensive? I notice in your India itinerary you flew from place to place, was that due to it being an easier option or down to time constraints?

 

One more: You mentioned Bhutan being difficult/complicated to enter, is there anything specific we need to know in regard to that?

 

I flew to Xining , the train takes about 21 - 23 hours

 

Xining believe it or not is predominately Muslim   .. so very different from a lot of China that you would see in the main towns  ( and hard to find any alcohol ) ... it's interesting but only to the point of having a walk around for a few hours whilst you kill time  .. it's no Beijing in terms of stuff to look at ... it was quite poor but Microsoft have located there and so  lots of building was going on , mainly hundreds of empty skyscrapers (you'll see this a lot in China)  ..

 

the station is a way out of town so allow time for this , also allow for the fact that english may not be widespread here so ask the agency who book s your train ticket to arrange a transfer

 

tbh it depnds which train you take  ... we left Xining around 20:00 and obviously you don't see anything for the for the first 10 hours or so  ...; it only really starts getting interesting the next morning as you reach the Tibet Plateau .. you could try and get to Golmud for example rather than Xining  .. or better still you could stop off in Xian and see the terracotta army  and not bother with Xining ( the Xian train will go to Lhasa on the same route so it will stop at Xining )

 

Beijing is definitely worth a few days , there is so much to see .. you can do this via the metro so don't bother with a tour here just do it yourself , it;s perfectly safe  , though its worth getting a local guide at the monuments themselves if you want to learn more about them ( they will seek you out don't worry )

 

Bhutan has limited routes in .. have a look for Druk Air on the web .. I went in via Bangladesh ( and out via Nepal) , but your other options are India ,Nepal ,  Thailand and Singapore  .. don't think you can get one from China

 

if it were me I'd probably fly from Lhasa to Kathmandu and then either go hiking there for a while or just have a few days in Kathmandu and then get the flight to Bhutan ( you will pass very close to Everest on this flight so ask for a window seat on the left hand side of the plane when you check in (or right hand side if you go Bhutan to Nepal )  )  ... you can get visa on arrival in Nepal if you are staying for less than 4 or 5 days ..otherwise you may need to get one before you go

 

 

I think the internal India flights were quite cheap , but it was 2007 when i went ... try someone like www.jetkonnect.com/ and see whats on offer

 

Bhutan you have to use an authorised travel agent , there are loads on the Bhutan government web site  , and they will book the flights and secure your visa .. it's not difficult just expensive ( the govt take most of the money not the Travel agent)

 

is like an all inclusive holiday ... you pay a fixed amount per day and for that price all your tours , hotels and meals are included  ... you basically just pay for beer and souvenirs ( and tips at the end ) ... your guides will take you where ever you want to go in effect  ( google Tigers nest Bhutan  )  ...  the local beer is 8% so go easy on it the night before you do your 5am start to tigers nest

 

I had to send money to a bank account in India for Bhutan , fairly standard for a lot of my trips to do this but it's kind of a hug leap of faith when you wire money to all these countires ( Tibet was the same , half up front and half in cash on arrival at Lhasa  ) wondering if you will turn up somewhere to find the company doesn't exist  ... all i can say is so far so good i've never had any issues , but trip advisor and the web is your friend for checking out agencies before you wire them any money so you aren't totally in the blind

( i used http://www.bhutantravelagency.com/ so i know they are legit )

Edited September 9, 2014 by tonyh29

[mikeyp102]

I would add Xian is a lovely place.. Not very informative I know.

[Delphouneso]

Regrettably it looks as though we may have to leave out Bhutan, the flights in and out are just so expensive! I've been looking at trying to make it part of our route round India by flying in from Bagdogra hoping it may be cheaper to fly from there as it's closer, however whenever I search for that flight on Druk Air it says 'no route for selected date' so I'm either going to have to try tonnes of different dates or get in contact with them. Also I'm sure I've read somewhere that if you leave India you can't return for two months? I don't know how accurate that is as I can't remember where I read it but that would make a trip to Bhutan difficult!

 

I also discovered we can get the train direct from Beijing to Lhasa, so our current plan is:

 

Beijing > Lhasa > Nepal > Dehli and then our rough route through India (limited to ten destinations with Google maps!):

 

 

Hopefully with an excursion to Bhutan through Bagdogra.

[tonyh29]

yeah Bhutan isn't the cheapest place you'll (n)ever visit ...

 

don't forget the toy train in Darjeeling  .. takes about 9 hrs  but one option is to drive up and then juts take the tourist bit for the loop at the end (boo hiss)

 

Varanasi is a popular spot in India .. we didn't go there as it will be full of divorcee 40 year olds  trying to find themselves but don't let me put you off   , it could be worth checking it out

 

also if /when  you go to Amritsar check out the border ceremony ... I only found out about it after we came back home ..but it sounds like fun  

 

 

and watch Octopussy before you visit Udaipur 

 

Edit:

when i went I landed in Delhi had a day there and then left to Nepal and then re-entered India in Calcutta  ... so i think you just need to apply for a multi entry visa when you do it

Edited September 9, 2014 by tonyh29

[Xela]

Quick question regarding Option C:

 

Why you trying to cover all South America? You'd need a year for that! Concentrate on one or two countries instead. You could do Peru and Ecuador. Or maybe concentrate on Brazil. I think you are spreading yourself too thinly, trying to get everything done in such a short space of time 

[tonyh29]

Quick question regarding Option C:

 

Why you trying to cover all South America? You'd need a year for that! Concentrate on one or two countries instead. You could do Peru and Ecuador. Or maybe concentrate on Brazil. I think you are spreading yourself too thinly, trying to get everything done in such a short space of time 

 

he said 2 months not 2 weeks   ... I'd expect to visit every country in the planet with that much time  .. your turning into one of them back packers aren't you Alex , and want to travel by bus with the locals and their chickens and take 4 days to cover 37 1/2 miles

[Delphouneso]

 

Quick question regarding Option C:

 

Why you trying to cover all South America? You'd need a year for that! Concentrate on one or two countries instead. You could do Peru and Ecuador. Or maybe concentrate on Brazil. I think you are spreading yourself too thinly, trying to get everything done in such a short space of time 

 

If we were going to do South America it would've been part of a longer trip where I'd hopefully spend a while teaching in Brazil/Argentina, hence the concerns over being able to do it on such a small budget. Having said that I'm glad we've opted out of that as if/when I ever get round to going to SA I wouldn't want to have to worry about money/time constraints.

 

 

Tibet you will need a Chinese visa for and then permission to travel .. it's best not to mention Tibet at the time you apply for your Chinese visa though visa it can result in your application being turned down

 

I've been looking in to this a little and a lot of people appear to be booking cheap flights out of China which they don't intend to use as proof of onward travel. Other than our flight to Beijing the only other flights we intend to book in advance are Kathmandu to Delhi, and Delhi to London, are either/both of these going to be proof enough of onward travel? Or is showing them a flight out of Kathmandu likely to make matters worse if they assume we got there via Tibet?

 

On a slightly more positive note I managed to find a flight in to Bhutan for £70, now it's just a case of figuring out whether we can afford the £140/day to be there!

 

Couple more questions.. Is it worth the extra money for a soft sleeper on the train to Lhasa or would we be better off saving £40ish and booking the hard sleeper? And are there any Tibetan tour companies you'd recommend? I've been through tonnes of them, and the Tripadvisor/Lonely Planet reviews for them, but it all seems a bit of a minefield with a lot of conflicting reviews, a recommendation from experience would be much appreciated! 

[tonyh29]

You may have to take what you can get with the sleeper ... We had a berth with 8 people in i think the next class up was 4 to a bunk .... You don't really get to sleep much anyway ( least I don't ) with the train movement and noise of other passengers

I think I put a link to the Tibet agency I used in my first post in this thread ... They were very good and did all that we wanted I'd use them again

[Delphouneso]

 

You may have to take what you can get with the sleeper ... We had a berth with 8 people in i think the next class up was 4 to a bunk .... You don't really get to sleep much anyway ( least I don't ) with the train movement and noise of other passengers

I think I put a link to the Tibet agency I used in my first post in this thread ... They were very good and did all that we wanted I'd use them again

 

 

Thanks for the recommendation Tony, Access Tibet have been fantastic, we've even managed to arrange for two separate train journeys (Beijing - Xining, Xining - Lhasa) so we can acclimatize for a couple of days in Xining, and we've provisionally booked with them (waiting for Chinese visas).

 

The first (and seemingly the most complicated!) leg of the trip is pretty much sorted! We're flying in to Beijing the second week of November, spending five days there, getting the train to Xining, then the train to Lhasa, doing the overland tour to Nepal, ten days in Nepal then we fly in to Delhi at the beginning of December. Now to start planning India! We may even be adding Singapore to our trip as I have a friend who will be there around the same time we'll be in eastern India and flights from Chennai to Singapore are only £70!

 

Looking forward to it now the hardest part of the planning is over, but I'll be much more excited when I know for sure we've got our Chinese visas!

[tonyh29]

Excellent stuff ... Look forward to hearing all about it

Try http://www.indiainvites.com

For India ... Guy was called Prashant but it was a few years back so he may not still be there

He put everything together for is in India and did an excellent job

[Delphouneso]

Excellent stuff ... Look forward to hearing all about it

Try http://www.indiainvites.com

For India ... Guy was called Prashant but it was a few years back so he may not still be there

He put everything together for is in India and did an excellent job

I had a look at that website and shall probably get in touch with them once we get a basic itinerary sorted. We've got up to two months to cover India though so we're quite flexible for that part of the trip, currently looking into whether it's worth applying for restricted area visas for visiting places like Sikkim.

[maltesemike]

I am about to embark on a trip to India and Nepal myself for 6-8 weeks. It's my first trip so I am not the best person to give advice but I have been advised to stick to a region and really explore it. Part of India's appeal to me was it's diversity and I hoped to explore all regions but maybe ill do so again in the future.

We've decided on a rough route starting in Rajasthan area. Land in Delhi then Agra-Jaipur-Pushkar-Joidphur and maybe further west to Jaisalmer. Eventually we will make our way further north to maybe Rishikesh, then head to Varanasi, stopping at Lucknow on the way. From Varanasi we head into Nepal.

We have also decided not to prebook much aside from a few night in Delhi on arrival. A few people have suggested to go with the flow and be flexible and I quite like the idea of that.

[tonyh29]

I think with 6 - 8 weeks you can def afford to be flexible and go as you please ... even in my short stay i opted to change on the day and squeeze in one more tiger safari as we hadn't actually seen any ( mission accomplished on the extra day )

 

I'm not sure that I'd stick to one region though .. Amritsar (Punjab) is nothing like Jodhpur for example ..and Darjeeling is not really like anywhere else in India ( well possibly other mountain towns ) 

[maltesemike]

I think with 6 - 8 weeks you can def afford to be flexible and go as you please ... even in my short stay i opted to change on the day and squeeze in one more tiger safari as we hadn't actually seen any ( mission accomplished on the extra day )

 

I'm not sure that I'd stick to one region though .. Amritsar (Punjab) is nothing like Jodhpur for example ..and Darjeeling is not really like anywhere else in India ( well possibly other mountain towns ) 

 

I am meeting people in Nepal after 4 weeks so I don't want to venture too far that is my only issue. In hindsight starting in Mumbai would have been smarter but to be honest my decision to travel was off the cuff and literally booked some tickets a few weeks back. I'm not the most impulsive of people and never thought I would travel but I have time on my side after finishing a fixed term contract and thought why not? I will gladly update this thread on any gems I find. I've heard about some interesting lassis in this area of India that I just have to try ....     

Edited September 16, 2014 by maltesemike

[Delphouneso]

Had my jabs this morning, and just booked the flights. We were originally going to book with Finnair for £440, but I figured I'd do one last check before we booked and found an Emirates flight had appeared for £447 so we've booked that instead.

Out of curiosity I looked at the cost of a single on the same flight, £559. So there could be people on our flight who have paid £112 more than us and our price includes a return from Delhi as well, madness.

[Delphouneso]

Coming up to two months in, currently in Goa, India taking a well deserved break from the road!

Beijing was mental, due to our Tibet plans being delayed we ended up there for ten days which I initially thought was a little too long but it was nice to have to extra time to adjust. Saw pretty much all we wanted to see (Great Wall, Forbidden City, Temple of Heaven etc).

We split the sky train journey in half so as to break up the journey and get a little altitude acclimatisation in Xining, then ended up getting stuck in traffic on the way to the train station and missing our train (we were there on time but they shut the gates early), there was panic, frustration, and a few tears from the missus, however thanks to a wonderful security lady who spoke no English but used a translator on her phone to converse with us we managed to get tickets for the same train three hours later (after a crazy taxi ride to and from an ATM) and still got to Tibet in time to join our tour!

Tibet was incredible, despite what was probably the coldest night of my life in what can only be described as a cow shed of a room in Old Tingri! The place just never ceases to amaze, standing at Everest base camp looking in awe at a mountain I've dreamt of visiting since I was a boy is an experience I'll never forget (and will probably go back and do again), and just as you think 'that's it we've seen Everest it's just a long drive to the border now', that long drive to the border ends up being one of the most spectacularly beautiful drives I've ever been on.

That was a tough act to follow, and the (long and treacherous) drive from the Kodari border to Kathmandu through the lush green valleys of Nepal was like something out of Jurassic Park (and just as dangerous!), meeting a group of monkeys on the way down was also an unexpected treat.

I loved Kathmandu, the people, the place, the food, all wonderful. Only downsides:

- gap year students that seem to think spending a week in Nepal smoking weed and wearing tiedye makes you Buddhist, and there were a lot of them.

- I had to apply for my Indian visa whilst in Kathmandu so we were tied to the city and didn't get chance to visit Pokhara or any of the other surrounding areas.

- I got really ill for the last few days (which carried over for a further week in Delhi) and missed out on a rock climbing trip we'd planned.

India so far has been fantastic but exhausting. Unfortunately we missed out on the border festival at Wagah you suggested Tony, despite the warnings we still planned to go until we were advised by a fellow traveller who'd spent a lot of time in Pakistan and the staff at our hotel in Delhi that it just wasn't worth the risk. We also missed out on Jaisalmer (which I was pretty gutted about) due to Indian transport being terrible!

More on India to come, right now I need a cold shower 'cause this Goan heat is something else!