Genie Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 The sooner Hodgson gets rid of Rooney the better. ??? Set up the first goal, scores the winner last week ?? He was ok last night. But I'm not having that about last week. I think vs Norway was one of his worst performances in an England shirt. I don't care if he scored a penalty. But England are far from in a position to be able to drop a striker with a record of 1:2. Within 2 years he'll probably be England and Man Utd's all time top goal scorer. Its frustrating sometimes when he doesn't appear to contribute enough, but for goals alone. He has to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 9, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted September 9, 2014 I'm not saying he should be dropped (although I do think he should be taken off in certain situations. We shouldn't be afraid of taking him off just because it's Rooney) I'm just saying that scoring a penalty doesn't cover up the fact that he was dreadful in that game. And the performance of the team notably improved when he came off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 9, 2014 England are far from in a position to be able to drop a striker with a record of 1:2. Within 2 years he'll probably be England and Man Utd's all time top goal scorer. Its frustrating sometimes when he doesn't appear to contribute enough, but for goals alone. He has to play. Problem is that he only scores in qualification campaigns and in games against weak opposition, his record for goals against decent teams is terrible despite as you say him heading towards being our top scorer. If he does achieve that status it will be largely because he is never dropped or taken off regardless of form and always bags goals against weak sides. Even if he ends up being our top scorer it will say more about his longevity than his ability in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Jack Whilshire must be the single most over rated player ever. Steven Gerrard who the media think of as some sort of Andrea Pirlo midfielder in front of the defence is a close 2nd though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 9, 2014 Jack Whilshire must be the single most over rated player ever. Steven Gerrard who the media think of as some sort of Andrea Pirlo midfielder in front of the defence is a close 2nd though Not even remotely close. While I agree that Gerrard is over rated in that role, he was, at least in domestic football, a world class player in his day although that day has long since gone. Wilshire has done the square root of knob all in his entire career and the hype that surrounds him seems to be based upon nothing more than the fact he was a young English player at Arsenal. I've never seen him play and thought "wow this kid is something", literally never. The hype around him is so far out of balance with his actual ability its untrue. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) He was pretty immense when Arsenal played Barca in 2011, only 19, and the hype has continued.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP_pCG9Cmio But he's hasn't lived up to the hype so far. Edited September 9, 2014 by AVFCforever1991 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 I was going to say the same about Gerrard. In his day he was a world class game changer. Rooney's 'profile' and wage packet suggest he should be one of the best players on the planet which is not the case at all. He is good enough to start for England though, especially in qualifying games which he has a great record of scoring in. If he's having a poor game then he should come off as Roy has been doing. I have no problem with this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 9, 2014 But Tamuff, given that Rooney only scores in qualification games and qualification is pretty much assured already, do you not think we would be better off playing someone else who might be able to score against the bigger sides at finals? Because for some reason Rooney can't. I just don't think Rooney deserves the place in the side or that there is much benefit to him being there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 The sooner Hodgson gets rid of Rooney the better. ??? Set up the first goal, scores the winner last week ?? He was ok last night. But I'm not having that about last week. I think vs Norway was one of his worst performances in an England shirt. I don't care if he scored a penalty. But England are far from in a position to be able to drop a striker with a record of 1:2. Within 2 years he'll probably be England and Man Utd's all time top goal scorer. Its frustrating sometimes when he doesn't appear to contribute enough, but for goals alone. He has to play. Dunno about that. I'd love to see a front three of Sterling, Sturridge and Wellbeck. Given our next three game are San Marino at home, Estonia away and Slovenia at home then I wouldn't be surprised it Woy tried it out. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 9, 2014 Dunno about that. I'd love to see a front three of Sterling, Sturridge and Wellbeck. Given our next three game are San Marino at home, Estonia away and Slovenia at home then I wouldn't be surprised it Woy tried it out. Totally agree, we know what Rooney offers or doesn't offer and he isn't the future regardless of his scoring record. Much as in the same way as Owen was put out to pasture by England I think the time has come for Rooney no longer to be considered the main man, although I'd keep him in the set up. The last World Cup was wasted by Hodgson and his half measure of taking the likes of Gerrard and Lampard, we shouldn't repeat the mistake now with Rooney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 If England don't qualify now, they may as well stop playing football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Regardless of who we select we should win. There are pro's and con's to dropping our soon-to-be record goal scorer. Every man and his dog will soon to jump on Roy's back if we end up getting a 0-0 draw in Estonia and Rooney doesn't play. Up to Roy I guess. The 'safer' option would be to play the guy who tends to score in these games, and goals win games. He might choose to mix it up and draw a blank. Who knows. The reason Rooney has a poor record scoring in tournaments might be down to the fact that the entire side perform awfully (for whatever reason). Roy gets millions for making these decisions and the margins are tiny. Its up to him, however, as we all know. The internet knows best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 As a few have mentioned earlier in the thread, it's the hype that destroys English players. Look at how the press trump-up Wilshere when his Welsh counterpart at Arsenal is a far greater player. Imagine if Ramsey, Bale and Giggs had been English.... The jizz levels would be off the scale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 9, 2014 Every man and his dog will soon to jump on Roy's back if we end up getting a 0-0 draw in Estonia and Rooney doesn't play. Up to Roy I guess. The 'safer' option would be to play the guy who tends to score in these games, and goals win games. He might choose to mix it up and draw a blank. Who knows. The reason Rooney has a poor record scoring in tournaments might be down to the fact that the entire side perform awfully (for whatever reason). Roy gets millions for making these decisions and the margins are tiny. Its up to him, however, as we all know. The internet knows best Which is exactly the problem, he wasn't brave enough to do it for the World Cup. Sure he dropped Cole but that was about it, he wasn't brave enough to put his neck on the block and really make the changes required and its the same now. I think he had/has an opportunity afforded to him where a lot of people, press included, would have accepted indifferent results in the pursuit of something better and real change. As it is we aren't serious about change, either in the FA or the England team like so many times before they play at it, make lip service to it but don't actually do it. We could drop Rooney from the squad and still get through this qualification group especially after last night, there really is no need for him to have to start every game, His form certainly doesn't dictate that he should. You are right, Roy is paid the big bucks to make the big decisions but for me he is bottling them just like he did at the World Cup which is why although not the problem with the England team for me he simply isn't part of the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Roy is essentially building a counter-attacking team and Rooney doesn't have the pace to play that game anymore. He is, however, a match winner, and until another steps up, he's pretty much guaranteed a spot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 (edited) I think he had/has an opportunity afforded to him where a lot of people, press included, would have accepted indifferent results in the pursuit of something better and real change.I'm not sure about this. The press are circling around Roy ready to pounce and he knows it. Its only really Rooney from the last generation still in the setup. Its not like we're still accomodating Gerrard, Lampard, Rio, Terry and Cole even though they are passed their best. What more "real change" do you want? What do you expect to happen with Rooney out of the side? Are we going to start knocking it around like the 1970 Brazil side? I don't really see the problem tbh. He generally scores in every other game. Roy is taking him off when he's playing poor. I'm sure if it continues to be a common theme he'll start with him on the bench. Edited September 9, 2014 by Tamuff_Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 9, 2014 Roy is essentially building a counter-attacking team and Rooney doesn't have the pace to play that game anymore. He is, however, a match winner, and until another steps up, he's pretty much guaranteed a spot. But how does another step up if he is a guaranteed starter? I agree with you on the rest, its another reason why I don't think he should be in the side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted September 9, 2014 Moderator Share Posted September 9, 2014 I think he had/has an opportunity afforded to him where a lot of people, press included, would have accepted indifferent results in the pursuit of something better and real change. I'm not sure about this. The press are circling around Roy ready to pounce and he knows it. Its only really Rooney from the last generation still in the setup. Its not like we're still accomodating Gerrard, Lampard, Rio, Terry and Cole even though they are passed their best. What more "real change" do you want? What do you expect to happen with Rooney out of the side? Are we going to start knocking it around like the 1970 Brazil side? I don't really see the problem tbh. He generally scores in every other game. Roy is taking him off when he's playing poor. I'm sure if it continues to be a common theme he'll start with him on the bench. Yes they are and that is largely because of the World Cup and his half arsed half measures. As I said he had/has an opportunity, he has lost some of that already because of the World Cup but prior to it there was a real sense of people, press included, wanting things to change there certainly wasn't a campaign in support of Rooney far from it. And no quite obviously I don't expect us to turn into 1970's Brazil, but I'd like to see the possibilities open to this side without a player who is there based on what he has done in the past rather than what he is doing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Well I think Barkley is his long term replacement. Sturridge, Welbeck, Walcott & Sterling are quite the counter-attacking force. Barkley has legs on him too. The biggest problem going forward is defence, but that seems to be a problem with many countries, not just England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 A campaign to get Rooney out of the side because it would represent 'real change' makes no sense at all. It smacks of Mclaren dropping Beckham and then having to bring him back in to try and save the day. Rooney is currently adding value in terms of goals and assists (for club and country) and is on the squad on merit. There are 10 others on the field and England currently have a fresh and youthful attacking look about them. I don't understand the witch hunt. Roy appears to be managing the situation by replacing players as and when required and winning games. This current England until, who have Walcott to come back in will I'm sure get better over the next 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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