Tegis Posted July 10, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted July 10, 2014 (edited) If Argentina wins, because of the underdog status, Messi will rise to compete for the "best of all times" title with Maradona. I think this will happen. Fantastic storyline that can be discussed for the next generation. I have to disagree because I don't think Messi has been that impressive (yes, 4 goals I know, but by his standard he has been quiet). Maradona meanwhile dragged Argentina on his own in 1986 and was head and shoulders the best player in the tournament ...and PaulC: In my opinion Maradona was way more ahead of the rest than Messi is, and will still be the best all-time. I love his skills. But Messi gets over a major hurdle. It is easy to argue that you need to have won the WC to be the best. Messi is a great player, will rightly be considered among the greatest to play the game, but he was no Maradona. Messi doesn't cope with been marked by 4 players, and getting lumps kicked out of him anywhere near as well as Maradona did and in Maradona's day players weren't anywhere near as well protected. I remember Maradona getting the legs hacked at at every opportunity but still dominate like no other. I went searching for a compilation of fouls against him but came up empty apart from single incidents (many). Found one of Pele instead. He wasn't really sheltered to put it mildly Edit: damn pagebreak Edited July 10, 2014 by Tegis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 So excited for Sunday. Come on Germany! Been waiting 6 years for this team to win a tournament, hope they smash Argentina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Can't wait for this final, should be a great game. Hope Messi turns up though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Messi's chance to prove that he one of the best ever or even the best ever so I fully expect Messi to be working his arse off for Argentina even if he is marked constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I hope and pray it's a better game than that last SF. It'd be a shame to end what has been a great World Cup on an off note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted July 11, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted July 11, 2014 A great final will give this tournament the legacy it deserves as the best World Cup since 1982. Germany are the strong favourites but do leave space at the back. Messi can exploit that and hopefully Di Maria is fit. An early goal for The Argies hopefully and it could be set up for a goal fest. Germany should be too strong but have a sneaky feeling they shot their bolt too early. 3-2 to Argentina and Messi to cement his genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 If Argentina wins, because of the underdog status, Messi will rise to compete for the "best of all times" title with Maradona. I think this will happen. Fantastic storyline that can be discussed for the next generation. I have to disagree because I don't think Messi has been that impressive (yes, 4 goals I know, but by his standard he has been quiet). Maradona meanwhile dragged Argentina on his own in 1986 and was head and shoulders the best player in the tournament ...and PaulC: In my opinion Maradona was way more ahead of the rest than Messi is, and will still be the best all-time. I love his skills. But Messi gets over a major hurdle. It is easy to argue that you need to have won the WC to be the best. Messi is a great player, will rightly be considered among the greatest to play the game, but he was no Maradona. Messi doesn't cope with been marked by 4 players, and getting lumps kicked out of him anywhere near as well as Maradona did and in Maradona's day players weren't anywhere near as well protected. honestly think if Maradona played today every game his opponent would be down to about 8 men. Martins Indi got booked for touching Messi hand the other night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) If Argentina wins, because of the underdog status, Messi will rise to compete for the "best of all times" title with Maradona. I think this will happen. Fantastic storyline that can be discussed for the next generation. I have to disagree because I don't think Messi has been that impressive (yes, 4 goals I know, but by his standard he has been quiet). Maradona meanwhile dragged Argentina on his own in 1986 and was head and shoulders the best player in the tournament ...and PaulC: In my opinion Maradona was way more ahead of the rest than Messi is, and will still be the best all-time. I love his skills. But Messi gets over a major hurdle. It is easy to argue that you need to have won the WC to be the best. Messi is a great player, will rightly be considered among the greatest to play the game, but he was no Maradona. Messi doesn't cope with been marked by 4 players, and getting lumps kicked out of him anywhere near as well as Maradona did and in Maradona's day players weren't anywhere near as well protected. theres probably some quote by socrates (the original one) that could be spun in to football terms, no doubt di stefano would have argued maradona had it lucky... if / when messi wins the world cup and finally silences those who say "he cant be the best ever until he wins the world cup" will there be another wave of people saying "he cant be the best ever because he doesnt get kicked" (which id actually argue isnt true, I've seen him get battered in many games, especially vs Jose's madrid) if thats going to happen then whats the point in having a "best ever" discussion in the 1st place? it seems as futile as the good old "world class" discussion Edited July 11, 2014 by villa4europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 and as for his performance in the last couple of games, i think he looks absolutely shattered, not sure if he's going missing or just too knackered to influence the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 If Argentina wins, because of the underdog status, Messi will rise to compete for the "best of all times" title with Maradona. I think this will happen. Fantastic storyline that can be discussed for the next generation. I have to disagree because I don't think Messi has been that impressive (yes, 4 goals I know, but by his standard he has been quiet). Maradona meanwhile dragged Argentina on his own in 1986 and was head and shoulders the best player in the tournament ...and PaulC: In my opinion Maradona was way more ahead of the rest than Messi is, and will still be the best all-time. I love his skills. But Messi gets over a major hurdle. It is easy to argue that you need to have won the WC to be the best. Messi is a great player, will rightly be considered among the greatest to play the game, but he was no Maradona. Messi doesn't cope with been marked by 4 players, and getting lumps kicked out of him anywhere near as well as Maradona did and in Maradona's day players weren't anywhere near as well protected. theres probably some quote by socrates (the original one) that could be spun in to football terms, no doubt di stefano would have argued maradona had it lucky... if / when messi wins the world cup and finally silences those who say "he cant be the best ever until he wins the world cup" will there be another wave of people saying "he cant be the best ever because he doesnt get kicked" (which id actually argue isnt true, I've seen him get battered in many games, especially vs Jose's madrid) if thats going to happen then whats the point in having a "best ever" discussion in the 1st place? it seems as futile as the good old "world class" discussion Without meaning to be pedantic, I don't think the argument is that he wont be considered the best if he doesn't win the world cup, I think it is more he won't be considered the best if he doesn't have an amazing world cup on his CV. Before this tournament he had had 1 world cup where he was poor by his standards, and another where he was just a young 19 year old bit part player. I don't think he has owned this world cup like Maradona 86, or Pele 70 or even Cruyff 1974, but he has played very well in 4 games I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I would say he has played well vs Nigeria only and then had moments of magic against Iran and Bosnia after average performances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 He isn't as good as Maradona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I'd say, even without his moments, he's helped Argentina get to the final simply by being on the pitch. Teams don't open up because he will score if you do, so Argentina have found it pretty comfortable if frustrating so far. Germany won't fear Messi as much simply because they can go toe to toe with Argentina if it comes to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 when he does dominate a world cup there'll be another reason as to why he's not as good as maradona... "he cant do as much coke" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 ''When he does''. It won't ever happen unfortunately . He will be 31 in Russia 2018, this was the tournament for him to own, and although he has been good IMO, he hasn't owned it and wouldn't get in my team of the tournament. Still easily top 4 of all time though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 If Argentina wins, because of the underdog status, Messi will rise to compete for the "best of all times" title with Maradona. I think this will happen. Fantastic storyline that can be discussed for the next generation. I have to disagree because I don't think Messi has been that impressive (yes, 4 goals I know, but by his standard he has been quiet). Maradona meanwhile dragged Argentina on his own in 1986 and was head and shoulders the best player in the tournament ...and PaulC: In my opinion Maradona was way more ahead of the rest than Messi is, and will still be the best all-time. I love his skills. But Messi gets over a major hurdle. It is easy to argue that you need to have won the WC to be the best. Messi is a great player, will rightly be considered among the greatest to play the game, but he was no Maradona. Messi doesn't cope with been marked by 4 players, and getting lumps kicked out of him anywhere near as well as Maradona did and in Maradona's day players weren't anywhere near as well protected. theres probably some quote by socrates (the original one) that could be spun in to football terms, no doubt di stefano would have argued maradona had it lucky... if / when messi wins the world cup and finally silences those who say "he cant be the best ever until he wins the world cup" will there be another wave of people saying "he cant be the best ever because he doesnt get kicked" (which id actually argue isnt true, I've seen him get battered in many games, especially vs Jose's madrid) if thats going to happen then whats the point in having a "best ever" discussion in the 1st place? it seems as futile as the good old "world class" discussion Without meaning to be pedantic, I don't think the argument is that he wont be considered the best if he doesn't win the world cup, I think it is more he won't be considered the best if he doesn't have an amazing world cup on his CV. Before this tournament he had had 1 world cup where he was poor by his standards, and another where he was just a young 19 year old bit part player. I don't think he has owned this world cup like Maradona 86, or Pele 70 or even Cruyff 1974, but he has played very well in 4 games I think. Pele had a great world cup also in 58 when he was only 17. He was injured for the most part in 62 and wasn't fit in 66 when he was at his peak age wise . Arguably we never saw the best of Pele. He would be my no.1 followed by Maradona and now its up to Messi to prove he's up there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Who will be wearing their away kit for the world cup final? Anyone know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 imagine Argentina as Brazil would have been home team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voinjama Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I don't think it works like that to be honest. Italia 90 final between the 2 sides, Euro 96 England Germany, France 98 Italy France. Anyway we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I hope Argentina get to wear their home kit. They look weird without the blue and white, whereas Germany still look like Germany with the black and red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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