SikhInTrinity Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) Yeah that's more than fair but in some cases there really isn't a distinction between the two and that's what I'm getting at. It can be more of a partnership than something clearly defined with both the manager and coach/number two exchanging responsibilities on the day to day running of the team depending upon the circumstances which was why I brought the point up about Keane's record as a manager when clearly he would have had some input in coaching his teams. So you could say the best course of action would be to give him a flipping chance first before writing him off based on his managerial record which may or may not matter (and isn't even bad anyway). How's your aunt by the way? His managerial record is disastrous as already quoted and all my aunts are dead so thanks very much for asking. So disastrous he took Sunderland from the bottom to the top of the league, to win the Championship. Edited June 4, 2014 by SikhInTrinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Why do people keep going on about the irrelevant, Keane's managerial record is almost not important. Keane is not managing Villa he is assisting Lambert with coaching, tactics, experience and motivation among other things. Stop going on about his management history FFS! For what it's worth his record as #2 with MON is 1Win 1Draw 2Losses Still not sure how he's gonna juggle his 3 jobs, think we need more than a part time assistant to aid Lambert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 people forget how bad the Sunderland team that took over really were. at the time they had the Premier League worst points record at the time and won only 3 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Why do people keep going on about the irrelevant, Keane's managerial record is almost not important. Keane is not managing Villa he is assisting Lambert with coaching, tactics, experience and motivation among other things. Stop going on about his management history FFS! For what it's worth his record as #2 with MON is 1Win 1Draw 2Losses Still not sure how he's gonna juggle his 3 jobs, think we need more than a part time assistant to aid Lambert he quit his punditry job yesterday and its 2 draws now as they drew with Italy on the weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Keane will only be the assistant! I dont rate him as a manager, but being an assistant is more like being a captain was back in the day - one of our major problems is that we have no leaders, on or off the pitch. I can't imagine him having too much influence on training etc (some, but not too much) but he'll the one screaming at players and getting them all fired up. If he does come in I can't see any more lethargic games where the players seemingly don't give a damn, and that can only be a good thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Yeah that's more than fair but in some cases there really isn't a distinction between the two and that's what I'm getting at. It can be more of a partnership than something clearly defined with both the manager and coach/number two exchanging responsibilities on the day to day running of the team depending upon the circumstances which was why I brought the point up about Keane's record as a manager when clearly he would have had some input in coaching his teams. So you could say the best course of action would be to give him a flipping chance first before writing him off based on his managerial record which may or may not matter (and isn't even bad anyway). How's your aunt by the way? His managerial record is disastrous as already quoted and all my aunts are dead so thanks very much for asking. So disastrous he took Sunderland from the bottom to the top of the league, to win the Championship. Then left them when they were in the bottom three in the Premiership and got Ipswich to 19th in the Championship before being sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Why do people keep going on about the irrelevant, Keane's managerial record is almost not important. Keane is not managing Villa he is assisting Lambert with coaching, tactics, experience and motivation among other things. Stop going on about his management history FFS! For what it's worth his record as #2 with MON is 1Win 1Draw 2Losses Still not sure how he's gonna juggle his 3 jobs, think we need more than a part time assistant to aid Lambert he quit his punditry job yesterday and its 2 draws now as they drew with Italy on the weekend Well thats a step in the right direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Yeah that's more than fair but in some cases there really isn't a distinction between the two and that's what I'm getting at. It can be more of a partnership than something clearly defined with both the manager and coach/number two exchanging responsibilities on the day to day running of the team depending upon the circumstances which was why I brought the point up about Keane's record as a manager when clearly he would have had some input in coaching his teams. So you could say the best course of action would be to give him a flipping chance first before writing him off based on his managerial record which may or may not matter (and isn't even bad anyway). How's your aunt by the way? His managerial record is disastrous as already quoted and all my aunts are dead so thanks very much for asking. So disastrous he took Sunderland from the bottom to the top of the league, to win the Championship. Then left them when they were in the bottom three in the Premiership and got Ipswich to 19th in the Championship before being sacked. So basically your only judging his managerial record on his failings and not his success. That's like me saying Mourinho is a shit manager because he won nothing last year and finished 3rd and completely ignoring the success he had. I'm not even saying Keane is a great manager but to say he's a disastrous one is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted June 4, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted June 4, 2014 Especially considering the fact that he dropped guys in positions where there were alternatives, like lowton for bacuna, benteke for kozak, Clark for baker. The only under performers that id say kept playing without repercussion were Weimann and sometimes gabby, but it's because villa didn't have better options. Well there were times when KEA, Westwood and even player-of-the-year Delph could have used a rest/kick up the backside. It's been well documented on here how little options there are in midfield though. I really dont get the "we have so few alternatives" argument at all... Dont people see that we have one of the largest registered squads in the league? So what if the alternatives dont have a lot of experience? If an experienced player isnt performing give someone else a chance. You know if the younger lads never get a chance they arent ever going to improve and its not as though the young lads could have done much worse than Gabby/weiman/tonev/sylla last season as they were all tripe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 Comparing the records of Keane to Mourinho in any shape or form is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) Comparing the records of Keane to Mourinho in any shape or form is ridiculous. Was i comparing the records, I was using the example of how you seem to judge managerial records. Edited June 4, 2014 by SikhInTrinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 4, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted June 4, 2014 Yeah that's more than fair but in some cases there really isn't a distinction between the two and that's what I'm getting at. It can be more of a partnership than something clearly defined with both the manager and coach/number two exchanging responsibilities on the day to day running of the team depending upon the circumstances which was why I brought the point up about Keane's record as a manager when clearly he would have had some input in coaching his teams. So you could say the best course of action would be to give him a flipping chance first before writing him off based on his managerial record which may or may not matter (and isn't even bad anyway). How's your aunt by the way? His managerial record is disastrous as already quoted and all my aunts are dead so thanks very much for asking. 1. His managerial record is pretty much irrelevant as he isn't going to be our manager. 2. It's not disastrous. He had a fairly successful tenure at Sunderland. Got them promoted. yes they were in the bottom 3 when he left, but they were a newly promoted team, that's hardly a shocking performance. He wasn't very good at Ipswich. No arguments. But that's one job in a very very short managerial career so far. Every manager has bad jobs. Writing him off because of his "dire" managerial record is just nonsense imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 He's just the Assistant Manager ffs, never seen so much written about an AM that won't be around for longer than a season anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffy Biro Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 In the short term it makes sense whether you agree with it or not,atleast imo. If this was a long term thing i'd probably be a little worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 (edited) We'll have to agree to differ then because as I've already said there are elements within a manager's job than can also be transferred to a number two and vice versa such as system choice and getting the players to play within the system and motivational skills. Keane has been found wanting on both even back in the Championship so on that basis it's certainly not nonsense to question his probable appointment with us and if you include his temperament on and off the pitch especially since we've already sacked a coach, or coaches for bullying for me it really isn't the way to go. Edited June 4, 2014 by shaggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 4, 2014 Author Moderator Share Posted June 4, 2014 Then left them when they were in the bottom three in the Premiership and got Ipswich to 19th in the Championship before being sacked. I'm not sure being in the bottom 3 with a newly promoted side is exactly a failure. As for Ipswich, I thought he finished 15th... Anyway... its all fairly irrelevant given that he isn't being appointed as our manager. There are plenty of people who have been very successful as number 2's and total failures as managers when trying to go it alone. I will judge Keane as an assistant manager on his time here rather than the time he has previously spent in an entirely different role. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaggy Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 So he is definitely coming to us then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 He's just the Assistant Manager ffs, never seen so much written about an AM that won't be around for longer than a season anyway. Not that surprising really imo. Firstly we have a manager still very much learning the job who many of us think isn't up to the job and therefore needs a very skilled nr2 to help him out. His last assistant got fired for extraordinary reasons and Keane being a former player who many of us doesn't have the fondest momories of and who i rumoured to be of the same ilk. He's also inexperienced at the role of nr2 and up untill last night? had 2 other jobs. All this added to the other turmoil at the club and the lack of transfer rumours makes it understandable that it is discussed in lenght Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted June 4, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted June 4, 2014 We'll have to agree to differ then because as I've already said there are elements within a manager's job than can also be transferred to a number two and vice versa such as system choice and getting the players to play within the system and motivational skills. Keane has been found wanting on both even back in the Championship so on that basis it's certainly not nonsense to question his probable appointment with us and if you include his temperament on and off the pitch especially since we've already sacked a coach, or coaches for bullying for me it really isn't the way to go. Like I said, there are countless examples of amazing assistants being crap managers and vice versa. Obviously you need some skills in both jobs. But the point is being bad at one job doesn't mean you'll be bad at the other. So citing Keane's managerial record as evidence that he'll be a crap assistant doesn't make much sense, especially as it's not even that bad. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted June 4, 2014 Share Posted June 4, 2014 If he comes surely it should be the rule he does the post match interview .doubt we will get the boys where excellent after a 4-0 loss from him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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