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Frobisher

Faulty devices and your consumer rights

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2 minutes ago, limpid said:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees/index_en.htm

It doesn't matter what they say. They can't override your statutory rights. They are trying to con people and hope that people will just give them more money.

Interesting. So who should she go to in the first instance?

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12 minutes ago, omariqy said:

Interesting. So who should she go to in the first instance?

It's probably too late now. She's voluntarily bypassed the whole legal process by part-exchanging the handset. They can now say it was broken and she went for a part-ex rather than giving them time to identify or rectify the fault.

I bet she still gets another iPhone next time :(

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1 hour ago, limpid said:

http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees/index_en.htm

It doesn't matter what they say. They can't override your statutory rights. They are trying to con people and hope that people will just give them more money.

I'm not sure about that. The new law Oct 2015 Law (from your link) says that for stuff bought after that date (Oct '15) 

Quote

Repair or Replacement

The consumer can opt for a repair or replacement during the first 30 days....When this occurs after 6 months of purchase the only change is that if you claim your final right to reject then the trader does not have to refund in full and can claim an amount for useage...

And the old one says that (for stuff, as in this instance, bought before Oct '15)

Quote

Generally a consumer can claim a repair or replacement of the goods if they become faulty or do not conform to the contract.  If this is not possible or not economical the consumer can look to claim a full or partial refund.

As you say she should have gone to O2. By going to the apple shop, there's always the risk that the response to someone going to the store saying "my phone's broke, O2 who I bought it off, won't give me another one" that the store person may think "she broke it by dropping it" or similar - otherwise, why not get O2 to sort it?

As good as Apple usually are (at least in my experience) unless she had a clear full, specific and detailed account of her "complaint" then I can sort of see why they'd offer what they did. Someone comes into their shop with a broken phone, perhaps no documentation, and a story that the phone is broken and the retailer has refused to....  - you'd need to be very clear about exactly what you're requesting / requiring from them to have much hope of getting what you want. The shop would probably point out that O2 is the retailer and deal with them. Beyond that written correspondence would be the way to take it, IMO.

it's highly improbable that the apple shop would just go "here, have a replacement for free" when they're not obliged to do that under the law and they're not the prime seller and they have no idea of why the phone was broken or why O2 rejected the initial request.

As you've said on other things, pay by credit card, and be clear when complaining to the retailer what you want, what you know you are entitled to, and what you will do next.

 

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24 minutes ago, blandy said:

I'm not sure about that. The new law Oct 2015 Law (from your link) says that for stuff bought after that date (Oct '15) 

And the old one says that (for stuff, as in this instance, bought before Oct '15)

Erm, no. I linked the EU directive. The UK law might be different, but as the page I linked states, the consumer gets the best deal where EU directives differ from any members' law. So the two years is a MINIMUM. In the UK we've always had a lot more than two years protection through SoGA et al anyway.

I agree with everything else you said.

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3 hours ago, limpid said:

Erm, no. I linked the EU directive. The UK law might be different, but as the page I linked states, the consumer gets the best deal where EU directives differ from any members' law. So the two years is a MINIMUM. In the UK we've always had a lot more than two years protection through SoGA et al anyway.

I agree with everything else you said.

The page you linked gives an example which states that

Quote

Sample story

Non-conformity of goods is not always immediately apparent

Mirek ordered a laptop, which appeared to work well. However, more than a year after buying it, he discovered that it had less memory than it was supposed to have.

Although this problem had not been obvious to him immediately, and the laptop was still functional, it nonetheless did not conform to what was advertised or agreed when he bought it. Mirek was therefore able to obtain a partial refund from the shop

So whether a phone charging fault, or RAM not as per spec/advert, partial refund after the 6 month period has expired would seem to be the level of protection under EU Law.

You're right on UK law  - UK law basically goes out to around 6 years potentially, I think, for many goods where some refund level may be had. I didn't know (until earlier) that the EU had made the guarantee period 24 months, I must confess. You live and learn.

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Hiya

The two years referred to in the Linked article is from the 1999 EC Directive (1999/44/EC )which gave rise to a lot of UK stuff gradually being changed. As has been mentioned, we already had a 6 year entitlement here so it is 6 years here, but the two years could apply if you were dealing with a trader based elsewhere in the E.U.

There is a good set of information here ;

http://www.tradingstandards.uk/advice/guidanceforbusinessontradingstandardslaw.cfm

 

Edited by terrytini

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@blandy It's the definitions from SoGA which apply as they are more generous than the directive. The example is a bad one in the UK as the "as described" conditions of SoGA work differently, particularly if they appear to have been deliberately misleading (which could be fraud).

SoGA doesn't specify a limit. The Limitations Act applies at 6 years though.

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8 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I forgot to mention,

he even got a 5 year warranty thrown in with the third TV! But they're still fobbing him off to Samsung and he's getting nowhere.

A 5/6 Year warranty is pretty much the norm nowadays for high end TV's. 

To be honest he's probably better off having a Samsung engineer come round to view said faults rather than a Currys Knowhow rep. 

JL or RS have always been best for none hassle straight forward returns whereas Currys are renown for being faff pants. 

Knowing what i know now, I wouldn't buy batteries from Currys in future.

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56 minutes ago, limpid said:

@blandy It's the definitions from SoGA which apply as they are more generous than the directive. The example is a bad one in the UK as the "as described" conditions of SoGA work differently, particularly if they appear to have been deliberately misleading (which could be fraud).

SoGA doesn't specify a limit. The Limitations Act applies at 6 years though.

Agreed.

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I bought a tablet on amazon in September 2014. It haven't used it a lot, but I turned it on the other day and it kept shutting down after five minutes because it was over heating. Even if I was just looking at lecture slides or browsing the internet. So it's faulty. I contacted the seller and he said the warranty of one year had passed so there was no entitlement to replacement or refund. I had amazon email him then and he gave the same reply again. I had a look at this thread and it said I've a minimum of 2 years guarantee. I'm going to email him the link to that, but if he doesn't reply or says that he doesn't feel like refunding me etc, as I expect he probably will, what can I do then?

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It's pretty clear cut then. I assume that you bought it through Amazon Marketplace?

Your next port of call is Amazon's complaints procedure (Amazon took your money so your contract is with Amazon). However, Amazon are (deliberately) hard to deal with on these things so if you aren't getting very far, call your credit card company and explain the situation to them. As long as you put £100 of the purchase on a credit card then the card company are jointly liable with Amazon.

Reminder, the manufacturer's warranty is in ADDITION to your statutory rights. That the manufacturer's warranty has expired is completely irrelevant. As the item is over six months old, you might have to pay for an independent fault investigation, but that's a detail to worry about if they insist on it.

After these it'll be a report to trading standards and a small claims procedure to recoup your losses.

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Great advice Limpid. I might take the mick a little, but your help and advice with things like this deserves praise. 

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On 13/01/2016 at 21:29, limpid said:

It's pretty clear cut then. I assume that you bought it through Amazon Marketplace?

Your next port of call is Amazon's complaints procedure (Amazon took your money so your contract is with Amazon). However, Amazon are (deliberately) hard to deal with on these things so if you aren't getting very far, call your credit card company and explain the situation to them. As long as you put £100 of the purchase on a credit card then the card company are jointly liable with Amazon.

Reminder, the manufacturer's warranty is in ADDITION to your statutory rights. That the manufacturer's warranty has expired is completely irrelevant. As the item is over six months old, you might have to pay for an independent fault investigation, but that's a detail to worry about if they insist on it.

After these it'll be a report to trading standards and a small claims procedure to recoup your losses.

Thanks very much for that. I've not done very well since. I emailed the guy again and directed his attention towards the EU guidelines and explained how his argument that there is nothing he can do due to the end of the warranty is not valid. He has not replied to that email and it has been five days. I'll email him again. I guess my next stop is a report to trading standards and leaving the seller negative feedback. And if no joy there, I guess I'll get on to Sony.

Amazon have really passed the buck on this one.

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I've never explored Amazon's complaints procedure for Marketplace, but it's worth taking a look. I suspect that like with ebay, Amazon will usually side with you rather than the seller.

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4 minutes ago, limpid said:

I've never explored Amazon's complaints procedure for Marketplace, but it's worth taking a look. I suspect that like with ebay, Amazon will usually side with you rather than the seller.

They do and have emailed the seller, but aside from that I'm on my own. They say that they offer an A-Z guarantee that's valid for 90 days, but it's 15 months since I bought it, so that's out. After that, they say it's out of their hands and between me and the seller. 

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2 minutes ago, limpid said:

Did you buy on a credit card?

Sadly no. Amazon giftcard

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Just now, YLN said:

Sadly no. Amazon giftcard

I suspect that you don't have a contract with the seller. Your contract is with Amazon. I'd contact trading standards or CAB and confirm what your rights are. Then you can decide whether to bring a small claims action against someone or not.

At the end of the day you might decide it's not worth the hassle.

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