leviramsey Posted May 14, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted May 14, 2014 Not content with getting one sport wrong... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Not content with getting one sport wrong... Only 7 ties since 1989 in American football. Effectively there are no draws... very offence orientated game, which makes the QB the key man. In football draws are very frequent (15-30% games) so an effective defence is important for the result of a majority of the games played. CB is the key position in the team because obviously it's in the middle of the park and the CB position has the best view of the other players to organize them. The CB is also always close to the ball whether in possession or out of it. If Shaw is actually any good then and worth this £27 million Man Utd reportedly want to spend on him he should be converted into a CB. I'm sure Man Utd will have thought about this possibility. Otherwise, why spend so much money for 1 assist in 35 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted May 14, 2014 Moderator Share Posted May 14, 2014 I'm sure Man Utd will have thought about this possibility. Otherwise, why spend so much money for 1 assist in 35 games. He is a LB you don't buy LB's based on the number of assists they get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I'm sure Man Utd will have thought about this possibility. Otherwise, why spend so much money for 1 assist in 35 games. He is a LB you don't buy LB's based on the number of assists they get. Yet people are using his supposed offensive threat to justify the price. Why spend £27m for a tall, lumbering LB who is going to be nutmegged all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Not content with getting one sport wrong... Only 7 ties since 1989 in American football. Effectively there are no draws... very offence orientated game, which makes the QB the key man. I'd argue the opposite. Rules nowadays are geared very much towards he offence in the NFL which means a tougher defence is more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) I'm sure Man Utd will have thought about this possibility. Otherwise, why spend so much money for 1 assist in 35 games. He is a LB you don't buy LB's based on the number of assists they get. Yet people are using his supposed offensive threat to justify the price. Why spend £27m for a tall, lumbering LB who is going to be nutmegged all the time. "tall and lumbering"? It's pretty obvious now you're just looking at whoscored.com and not actually watching Shaw play. He's not all that tall and he's certainly not "lumbering". If Luke Shaw ever changes position, it'll be to left sided midfielder, not left back. He would be a massive waste at centre back. They have such minor input going forward, even the best technical CBs are there just to keep possession, not really contribute to the attack. Edited May 14, 2014 by kurtsimonw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I'm sure United are investing in a left back to replace evra......27 mil may sound a lot for a left back but when you consider his age and talent I think we'll look upon it as a bargain in years to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 "tall and lumbering"? It's pretty obvious now you're just looking at whoscored.com and not actually watching Shaw play. He's not all that tall and he's certainly not "lumbering". If Luke Shaw ever changes position, it'll be to left sided midfielder, not left back. He would be a massive waste at centre back. They have such minor input going forward, even the best technical CBs are there just to keep possession, not really contribute to the attack. I've watched him on youtube. Why didn't Wilshere nutmeg him at 2:36? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6rHcF05uOc#t=156 I admit the new Paolo Maldini argument is the strongest one for Shaw continuing at LB - at least until he loses his pace. My response to this is that pacey and skillful CBs are more important today than they were when Maldini was playing and that Shaw isn't good enough offensively, so the cost-benefit equation will push him into the centre of the defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 His dribbling is one of his best attributes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 His dribbling is one of his best attributes. Dribbling, pace and he also can take freekicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Con Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 His dribbling is one of his best attributes. Dribbling, pace and he also can take freekicks Not convinced. James Ward-Prowse is a fantastic free kick taker. Shaw can take free kicks but is not fantastic at them. As I said, the game has evolved. These days the CB needs to be able to run fast and execute a Cryuff turn effectively. How often does Kompany carry the ball almost to the edge of opponent's penalty box? He loves that, and it causes havoc because he creates the extra man. For teams that have a lot of possession who find it difficult to break down an encamped defence, the charging CB and element of surprise it causes could be a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnbull Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 For an 18 year old he's amazing. Not seen anybody that good at 18 at left back ever. Looks a tad old for 18... No he doesn't 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 ^ oh lord I just laughed loudly in an extremely quiet office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 "tall and lumbering"? It's pretty obvious now you're just looking at whoscored.com and not actually watching Shaw play. He's not all that tall and he's certainly not "lumbering". If Luke Shaw ever changes position, it'll be to left sided midfielder, not left back. He would be a massive waste at centre back. They have such minor input going forward, even the best technical CBs are there just to keep possession, not really contribute to the attack. I've watched him on youtube. Why didn't Wilshere nutmeg him at 2:36? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6rHcF05uOc#t=156 Because Shaw was would've then been between Wilshire and the ball and his pace would've meant Wilshire would basically be giving the ball away. Shaw doesn't have the right qualities to be a CB. He's an attacking full back which is 1) his natural position, 2) where he's used to playing and 3) the position his best attributes fit. We get that you're very into the tactics and that side of the game, but with this one you really, really are looking for something that just isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papillon Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Con, he is 18 years old and you are already describing his entire repertoire and future, as you always do with players. From the mere fact that you often say strange things that come back and bite you in the ass, why so bombastic? Shaw is still a kid, but he has already performed at a high level and he is going to the World Cup - he also got included in the Team of the Season. Even though that can be disputed for many players, it still is an indication that he is going to become something as experience comes along. Being a defender is about keeping the line together and avoid letting in goals at the back, especially for attacking teams that leave a lot of space for counters. Most faults come from either side in my opinion, the best teams often let in goals because one of the full-backs have left space to exploit. Sure a good central defender is just as important, but they seldom contribute as much in attack as certain full-backs do. I have always been a fan of the approach where the team has one offensive and one defensive full-back, to ensure that some defensive stability is always present. That doesn't mean that the defensive one will never cross the other half, but he wouldn't be as gung-ho as the other - see Seamus Coleman. Assists and goals are important from any player, but just a bonus from the left-back, that shouldn't be a priority. Sure Leighton Baines can convert penalties and free-kicks, but teams can also have other players to do just that. The only priority is of course to have the ability to defend and make smart choices every single game. Shaw has a good level already, he can play for 15 more years and not least; develop alongside the right players. You don't just buy a player for now, you buy their potential ability and grind out the rest over the coming years. That's why the price is at 27-30M and it's totally fair in my opinion. Someone could use that argument towards Lambert's approach in the market, but the big, big difference is that you have to at least see the potential or raw ability. Few or none of the players we have gotten on the cheap possess a single gram of ability or unreleased asset, that's just buying someone and hoping a miracle happens. It usually never does. With Shaw they know that there is a huge chance he will become an excellent left-back in a few years, and they take that shot. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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