Luke Shaw

[Con]

Con, name me some CBs who contribute to the attacking play of a team? Even those that're tidiest on the ball often just play it simple to the CM or full back. Playing him at CB wastes all that he can contribute in the opposition half. Shaw is better going forward than he is defensively. If he ever moves position (unlikely, IMO) it'll be into midfield, not at the back.

 

 Ferdinand, Kompany, Vermaelen, Ramos. The modern CB drives with the ball deep into the opposition territory creating the extra man before releasing it. 

[AVTuco]

For an 18 year old he's amazing. Not seen anybody that good at 18 at left back ever.

 

Looks a tad old for 18...

[TrentVilla]

Well, that isn't totally right. The Milan Maldini played for broke away from Catenaccio in the late 80s. Sacchi's 4-4-2 was arguably the most influential tactic in modern football.

 

#justsayin

 

Okay, so I was wrong about that in the specific case of Maldini's club, Milan (although he may have played different for Italy?).

 

Milan's CBs would be higher up the pitch, playing the offside trap instead. However, they still would not have needed the pace they do today.  

 

The offside trap was easier to maintain for that Milan side (none of that interfering with play rule lark).  

 

Also there was less panic when they had the ball because the goalkeeper could pick up the ball on a pass back from the CB, so they didn't need so much skill on the ball.

Did you ever actually see the Sacchi Milan side play or have you just read about it?

[Con]

 

Did you ever actually see the Sacchi Milan side play or have you just read about it?

 

 

I watched some Italian football in '90s when it was on C4. At that time I didn't think about 442s or Catenaccios. 

[AVFCforever1991]

 

 

Did you ever actually see the Sacchi Milan side play or have you just read about it?

 

 

I watched some Italian football in '90s when it was on C4. At that time I didn't think about 442s or Catenaccios. 

 

 

[samjp26]

 

 

Did you ever actually see the Sacchi Milan side play or have you just read about it?

 

 

I watched some Italian football in '90s when it was on C4. At that time I didn't think about 442s or Catenaccios. 

 

 

But you knew about pushing your defenders up the pitch and playing the offside trap?

[Qwpzxjor1]

Add me to the 'very good prospect but no way worth 27m group'.

Not sure what Man Utd are doing spending that much on him.

[TrinityRoadSteps]

Add me to the 'very good prospect but no way worth 27m group'.

Not sure what Man Utd are doing spending that much on him.

 

Desperate to be seen to be doing something ?

[Papillon]

 

Add me to the 'very good prospect but no way worth 27m group'.

Not sure what Man Utd are doing spending that much on him.

 

Desperate to be seen to be doing something ?

 

 

He is 18 years old and just pushed out Ashley Cole to go to the World Cup. They potentially have a left-back for the next 15 years and he is already good enough to push Patrice Evra out of the position he has held for 8 years or so. Of course there is risk involved with those figures, but in terms of current ability, potential upside and age - it is a very fair price in today's market. I am pretty sure many said Ramsey, Bale, Ferdinand, Ronaldo et al have come and gone for high fees, but in retrospect they are worth every penny and double. Some said Ronaldo was expensive at 12M, then they said 80M was too high when he left for Real Madrid - even though in my opinion, what he has done there is worth almost the double.

 

Some players turn out to be duds, but if you don't risk anything you never achieve anything and they can afford it easily. Desperation? Not the slightest. Keep buying Luna's and Bennett's and see how far we come and how much we spend to finally get a decent left-back.

[TrentVilla]

 

 

Did you ever actually see the Sacchi Milan side play or have you just read about it?

 

 

I watched some Italian football in '90s when it was on C4. At that time I didn't think about 442s or Catenaccios. 

 

 

That doesn't  answer my question, I didn't ask if you watched Italian football I asked if you watched Sacchi's Milan side in the late 1980's given that is what you are referring to. Did you?

[Con]

 

 

 

Did you ever actually see the Sacchi Milan side play or have you just read about it?

 

 

I watched some Italian football in '90s when it was on C4. At that time I didn't think about 442s or Catenaccios. 

 

 

But you knew about pushing your defenders up the pitch and playing the offside trap?

 

 

I closed my eyes and using special meditative techniques pulled that information directly from the universal football knowledge library using only the power of my mind.

 

 

Alright I'm winging it. But nobody noticed did they.

[Con]

 

 

 

Did you ever actually see the Sacchi Milan side play or have you just read about it?

 

 

I watched some Italian football in '90s when it was on C4. At that time I didn't think about 442s or Catenaccios. 

 

 

That doesn't  answer my question, I didn't ask if you watched Italian football I asked if you watched Sacchi's Milan side in the late 1980's given that is what you are referring to. Did you?

 

 

I don't know if I did. I would say I probably did but I don't remember anything about it. I have since seen some youtube clips.

[TrentVilla]

 

 

 

 

Did you ever actually see the Sacchi Milan side play or have you just read about it?

 

 

I watched some Italian football in '90s when it was on C4. At that time I didn't think about 442s or Catenaccios. 

 

 

That doesn't  answer my question, I didn't ask if you watched Italian football I asked if you watched Sacchi's Milan side in the late 1980's given that is what you are referring to. Did you?

 

 

I don't know if I did. I would say I probably did but I don't remember anything about it. I have since seen some youtube clips.

 

 

As I suspected.

[Con]

Okay fine! It's the best I can do. It was a very good team and it was fascinating what Arrigo Sacchi did with the 442.

 

However, when they changed the rules on off-side and pass back to the keeper the system became less effective and ball-playing, pacey CBs have become more and more prevalent.

 

CB is a hugely influential position and as a truly World Class defender if Paolo Maldini emerged today there would be a reason for him to be a CB from the very start of his career. 

[heid3ster]

Con, there's more to football than stats and youtube clips. I hope you discover it someday, it's a wonderful sport.

[Con]

Con, there's more to football than stats and youtube clips. I hope you discover it someday, it's a wonderful sport.

 

I'll be scouting Luke Shaw at the end of this month when England plays Peru at Wembley.

[TrentVilla]

 

Con, there's more to football than stats and youtube clips. I hope you discover it someday, it's a wonderful sport.

 

I'll be scouting Luke Shaw at the end of this month when England plays Peru at Wembley.

 

 

No, you will be watching you aren't a scout. Well you might be in scouts but that isn't the same thing.

[TrentVilla]

Okay fine! It's the best I can do. It was a very good team and it was fascinating what Arrigo Sacchi did with the 442.

 

However, when they changed the rules on off-side and pass back to the keeper the system became less effective and ball-playing, pacey CBs have become more and more prevalent.

 

CB is a hugely influential position and as a truly World Class defender if Paolo Maldini emerged today there would be a reason for him to be a CB from the very start of his career. 

 

Well you could just admit you never watch the Sacchi AC Milan side because its fairly obvious you didn't.

 

Sacchi left Milan in 1991 the pass back rule was introduced a year later in 92, Sacchi returned for a

second unsuccessful spell at AC in 1996-97 but that wasn't the era of his great side and their rigid 4-4-2.

 

You don't know what you are talking about no matter what stats you've seen or how much time you've spent on You tube because you clearly never actually saw the team you are referring to.

 

CB is no more influential now than its ever been, Maldini was an immense player but he was a LB not a CB. Your point on if Maldini emerged today is little more than your own little theory based on nothing at all much like your claim United will pay £27m for a LB only to convert him to CB.

[Con]

I'll be there in person at Wembley hoping he gets some game time. Not watching on the TV.

 

 

 

Okay fine! It's the best I can do. It was a very good team and it was fascinating what Arrigo Sacchi did with the 442.

 

However, when they changed the rules on off-side and pass back to the keeper the system became less effective and ball-playing, pacey CBs have become more and more prevalent.

 

CB is a hugely influential position and as a truly World Class defender if Paolo Maldini emerged today there would be a reason for him to be a CB from the very start of his career. 

 

Well you could just admit you never watch the Sacchi AC Milan side because its fairly obvious you didn't.

 

Sacchi left Milan in 1991 the pass back rule was introduced a year later in 92, Sacchi returned for a

second unsuccessful spell at AC in 1996-97 but that wasn't the era of his great side and their rigid 4-4-2.

 

You don't know what you are talking about no matter what stats you've seen or how much time you've spent on You tube because you clearly never actually saw the team you are referring to.

 

CB is no more influential now than its ever been, Maldini was an immense player but he was a LB not a CB. Your point on if Maldini emerged today is little more than your own little theory based on nothing at all much like your claim United will pay £27m for a LB only to convert him to CB.

 

 

I don't know. It seems to me LB and CB share many similarities in terms of physical and technical requirements. There is no reason why Man Utd won't at least try him out at CB just in case he is good there.

 

In my opinion CB is the most important position in the team so they will play their best defender there if they can do so (in football games can be drawn, so the organizer of the defence is the key individual, whereas in American football in which games are only won or lost the organizer of the offense, the QB, is the key man). 

 

 

This is a nice clip. Shows how the Milan defence just rush out like a tsunami catching all the Real forward players offside.

 

Edited May 14, 2014 by Con

[TrentVilla]

I'll be there in person at Wembley hoping he gets some game time. Not watching on the TV.

 

I don't know. It seems to me LB and CB share many similarities in terms of physical and technical requirements. There is no reason why Man Utd won't at least try him out at CB just in case he is good there.

 

In my opinion CB is the most important position in the team so they will play their best defender there if they can do so (in football games can be drawn, so the organizer of the defence is the key individual, whereas in American football in which games are only won or lost the organizer of the offense, the QB, is the key man). 

 

 

This is a nice clip. Shows how the Milan defence just rush out like a tsunami catching all the Real forward players offside.

 

 

Being at the game doesn't make you a scout.

 

As for the rest, I can't be bothered. I don't need a you tube clip to tell me about a side I actually watched play for real.