villalad21 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Moyes finished sixth with Everton last season, though. Has the modern game evolved that much in just one year? Everton has improved massively, same with Liverpool, Man Utd with a top club manager is always going to be top 4, add to the fact, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham + Southampton on the rise. I think if we got Moyes, we would be nowhere near top 6 now, or in the coming years. You might disagree, but for myself, I don't see it. Edited April 23, 2014 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarpie Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 A different time?? less then 12 months ago, reality check time i think...... Everton have moved into the next level now because they have a good manager, Moyes is an average manager. Top 6 have evolved, which resulted in Moyes not even getting top 6 with Man Utd. Then i ask you, if Moyes can't make it into top 6 with Man Utd, how the f*** is he going to achieve that with us? Theres no way he is going to get us even near the likes of Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Everton and Spurs and Southampton. Jeezus man, I'd love to spend a few weeks in your world seriously. Black and white, nothing in between not even room for discussion. The top 6 hasn't evolved greatly overnight, granted Liverpool have surpassed expectations but other than that it's the same top 7 clubs so I do not believe for a second that the evolution of the top 6 has excluded any chance Moyes might have of ever finishing there. Whoever took the United job, in my opinion would have done extremely well not to fail, admittedly Moyes has quite spectacularly failed but Ferguson is no mug in retiring when he did, he knew himself that it would take a serious rebuild to maintain the United standards and I'm assuming that at his age he thought better of it, has the past 8 months all of a sudden turned Moyes into a piss poor manager as you would have us believe? No it hasn't, and that is pretty much a fact. Football is football, the dynamics change every now and again but it's essentially the same shit year on year, Moyes took over Everton at a time when they were skirting with relegation and with **** all money in the bank - sound familiar? He transformed them into a side that regularly challenged for the top 6 even finishing fourth on one occasion, for years whenever we've been looking for a Manager he's somewhat universally lauded as someone who would be a great fit for us and yet now, after all the Sky Sports fanfare over his departure he's suddenly shit? Bollocks. I have to say i disagree with you. I do honestly believe top 6 is much stronger now and i think Moyes desperately tried to adapt to the modern football in United, but he obviously failed. Just look at how Southampton and Everton play, the football is changing and there is no room in the top 6 for teams that plays negative football, the current table is a proof of that. I agree, and I can't see no reason why we couldn't challenge for top6 with progressive manager who plays proactive football. I seriously think we could challenge for places in top 6 within two or three seasons. We're not far from top 10 given that our best players are fit, so some very good buys could see us challenging for top 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 One of the Everton forums has a poll about whether they're playing better football under Martinez or Moyes. The poll is resoundingly in support of Martinez, but...a lot of posters agree that they played some sublime stuff under Moyes; especially last season. The criticism of him is that he can be a little too negative at times and that he will resort to balls to the wall defending. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 A different time?? less then 12 months ago, reality check time i think...... Everton have moved into the next level now because they have a good manager, Moyes is an average manager. Top 6 have evolved, which resulted in Moyes not even getting top 6 with Man Utd. Then i ask you, if Moyes can't make it into top 6 with Man Utd, how the f*** is he going to achieve that with us? Theres no way he is going to get us even near the likes of Liverpool, Man City, Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Everton and Spurs and Southampton. Jeezus man, I'd love to spend a few weeks in your world seriously. Black and white, nothing in between not even room for discussion. The top 6 hasn't evolved greatly overnight, granted Liverpool have surpassed expectations but other than that it's the same top 7 clubs so I do not believe for a second that the evolution of the top 6 has excluded any chance Moyes might have of ever finishing there. Whoever took the United job, in my opinion would have done extremely well not to fail, admittedly Moyes has quite spectacularly failed but Ferguson is no mug in retiring when he did, he knew himself that it would take a serious rebuild to maintain the United standards and I'm assuming that at his age he thought better of it, has the past 8 months all of a sudden turned Moyes into a piss poor manager as you would have us believe? No it hasn't, and that is pretty much a fact. Football is football, the dynamics change every now and again but it's essentially the same shit year on year, Moyes took over Everton at a time when they were skirting with relegation and with **** all money in the bank - sound familiar? He transformed them into a side that regularly challenged for the top 6 even finishing fourth on one occasion, for years whenever we've been looking for a Manager he's somewhat universally lauded as someone who would be a great fit for us and yet now, after all the Sky Sports fanfare over his departure he's suddenly shit? Bollocks. I have to say i disagree with you. I do honestly believe top 6 is much stronger now and i think Moyes desperately tried to adapt to the modern football in United, but he obviously failed. Just look at how Southampton and Everton play, the football is changing and there is no room in the top 6 for teams that plays negative football, the current table is a proof of that. Everton had circa 30% posession against Arsenal and won (i think) You reference two teams out of 20 and say that footballs changing, so 10% of the league have changed their style and this is now meant to be representative of the other 90%? You say top 6 is stronger now, since when - the start of this season? If so that's a very small sample size and the fact we have just a single club left in any european competition would perhaps indicate quite the opposite. You talk about negative football, may I ask what is so positive about having 70%+ posession in two matches and failing to win either? (Southampton vs us) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ermie123 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Troy Tempest, or better still Captain Scarlett he always managed the mysterons very well!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) One of the Everton forums has a poll about whether they're playing better football under Martinez or Moyes. The poll is resoundingly in support of Martinez, but...a lot of posters agree that they played some sublime stuff under Moyes; especially last season. The criticism of him is that he can be a little too negative at times and that he will resort to balls to the wall defending. Good post. I do think the 'negative' tag for Moyes is unfair also. I thought his Everton side did generally play decent football though they would play conservatively at times to grind out results. Even this season, I wouldn't say United were negative as such. Their build-up play was quite impressive it was just that they lacked any real cutting-edge in the final-third. Something Moyes may well have corrected with a bit more time. Edited April 23, 2014 by Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 or better still Captain Scarlett he always managed the mysterons very well!!!! But he died every episode without fail. By God, he's perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Everton had circa 30% posession against Arsenal and won (i think) You reference two teams out of 20 and say that footballs changing, so 10% of the league have changed their style and this is now meant to be representative of the other 90%? You say top 6 is stronger now, since when - the start of this season? If so that's a very small sample size and the fact we have just a single club left in any european competition would perhaps indicate quite the opposite. You talk about negative football, may I ask what is so positive about having 70%+ posession in two matches and failing to win either? (Southampton vs us) First of, read my post properly. Second, the stats you are refering too are wrong Third, I'm talking about the top 6 clubs, again, read my post properly. Fourth, I'm obviously refering to this season when I'm refering to the likes of Southampton and Everton. How representative English clubs currently are in Europe is irrelevant to my post. You are refering to 2 spesific games against Southampton where you are questioning the importance of possession? Southampton have been the better team in both of those games, especially at home, undeserved victories happens in football, you need to look at the season as a whole to reclect on how good Soton have played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarpie Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 One of the Everton forums has a poll about whether they're playing better football under Martinez or Moyes. The poll is resoundingly in support of Martinez, but...a lot of posters agree that they played some sublime stuff under Moyes; especially last season. The criticism of him is that he can be a little too negative at times and that he will resort to balls to the wall defending. Good post. I do think the 'negative' tag for Moyes is unfair also. I thought his Everton side did generally play decent football though they would play conservatively at times to grind out results. Even this season, I wouldn't say United were negative as such. Their build-up play was quite impressive it was just that they lacked any real cutting-edge in the final-third. Something Moyes may well have corrected with a bit more time. Wasn't that also a problem of Moyes' Everton, that they lacked any real cutting-edge in the final-third? As long as I remember, they were pretty low scoring team, and got results by grinding them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) One of the Everton forums has a poll about whether they're playing better football under Martinez or Moyes. The poll is resoundingly in support of Martinez, but...a lot of posters agree that they played some sublime stuff under Moyes; especially last season. The criticism of him is that he can be a little too negative at times and that he will resort to balls to the wall defending. Good post. I do think the 'negative' tag for Moyes is unfair also. I thought his Everton side did generally play decent football though they would play conservatively at times to grind out results. Even this season, I wouldn't say United were negative as such. Their build-up play was quite impressive it was just that they lacked any real cutting-edge in the final-third. Something Moyes may well have corrected with a bit more time. Wasn't that also a problem of Moyes' Everton, that they lacked any real cutting-edge in the final-third? As long as I remember, they were pretty low scoring team, and got results by grinding them. Here are some Everton fans views on Moyes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_jziP5oAn8 "I've watched him for 11 years, 9 of those years I wanted him out. His football is pathetic. Sad it really is, he can't change a game." Edited April 23, 2014 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 One of the Everton forums has a poll about whether they're playing better football under Martinez or Moyes. The poll is resoundingly in support of Martinez, but...a lot of posters agree that they played some sublime stuff under Moyes; especially last season. The criticism of him is that he can be a little too negative at times and that he will resort to balls to the wall defending. Good post. I do think the 'negative' tag for Moyes is unfair also. I thought his Everton side did generally play decent football though they would play conservatively at times to grind out results. Even this season, I wouldn't say United were negative as such. Their build-up play was quite impressive it was just that they lacked any real cutting-edge in the final-third. Something Moyes may well have corrected with a bit more time. Wasn't that also a problem of Moyes' Everton, that they lacked any real cutting-edge in the final-third? As long as I remember, they were pretty low scoring team, and got results by grinding them. Here are some Everton fans views on Moyes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_jziP5oAn8 "I've watched him for 11 years, 9 of those years I wanted him out. His football is pathetic. Sad it really is, he can't change a game." About sums him up. A negative manager and some people on here want him so that we can perpetuate the rubbish we have suffered over the last few years. Mind you, our tactical genius Lambert managed to get us stuffed twice by his manure side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 You talk about negative football, may I ask what is so positive about having 70%+ posession in two matches and failing to win either? (Southampton vs us) The positive for Southampton is that this season their football has won them 49 points and a +5 goal difference so far. Ours has given us 35 points and a -14 goal difference. Their football is much better than ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatever happened to ..... Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Agree , away team as use it better than we do , drives me nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatever happened to ..... Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 http://www.villatalk.com/index.php?/topic/11174-Who-realistically-should-be-the-next-villa-manager?#entry1308154 need a manager who will make use of the huge pitch we have at VP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) Here are some Everton fans views on Moyes. "I've watched him for 11 years, 9 of those years I wanted him out. His football is pathetic. Sad it really is, he can't change a game." The fans on the forum who reckon they were playing good football must've been watching a different Everton!? The opinions seem to range from - they were playing some excellent football to they were too negative. I don't know what to make of it. I don't remember seeing Everton all that much last season. The truth probably sits somewhere in between. They probably did play some great football but they also had times when they'd sit and defend. Edit: Bloke in the cap - "they used to come here and it'd be three points. We never used to get a result against United" 20th Aug 2012 - Everton 1 Man United 0 I think his opinion can be discredited given he can't even think back one season. Edited April 23, 2014 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isa Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 (edited) One of the Everton forums has a poll about whether they're playing better football under Martinez or Moyes. The poll is resoundingly in support of Martinez, but...a lot of posters agree that they played some sublime stuff under Moyes; especially last season. The criticism of him is that he can be a little too negative at times and that he will resort to balls to the wall defending. Good post. I do think the 'negative' tag for Moyes is unfair also. I thought his Everton side did generally play decent football though they would play conservatively at times to grind out results. Even this season, I wouldn't say United were negative as such. Their build-up play was quite impressive it was just that they lacked any real cutting-edge in the final-third. Something Moyes may well have corrected with a bit more time. Wasn't that also a problem of Moyes' Everton, that they lacked any real cutting-edge in the final-third? As long as I remember, they were pretty low scoring team, and got results by grinding them. Haven't checked but from what I remember they didn't score that much earlier on in his reign but as it went on it got better in this regard. He never really had a top-class striker there either which didn't help although obviously that is partly his fault. He was unlucky with Yakubu though as he was one of the most prolific strikers in the league when they signed him but he had that horrendous injury and was never the same. Edited April 23, 2014 by Isa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 Here are some Everton fans views on Moyes. "I've watched him for 11 years, 9 of those years I wanted him out. His football is pathetic. Sad it really is, he can't change a game." The fans on the forum who reckon they were playing good football must've been watching a different Everton!? The opinions seem to range from - they were playing some excellent football to they were too negative. I don't know what to make of it. I don't remember seeing Everton all that much last season. The truth probably sits somewhere in between. They probably did play some great football but they also had times when they'd sit and defend. Edit: Bloke in the cap - "they used to come here and it'd be three points. We never used to get a result against United" 20th Aug 2012 - Everton 1 Man United 0 I think his opinion can be discredited given he can't even think back one season. Was that the game when they played hoofball up to Fellaini the whole game? Wouldn't call that good football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I want someone who struggles to speak English and by that I do not mean a Scottish manager. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I want someone who struggles to speak English and by that I do not mean a Scottish manager. Mel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted April 23, 2014 Share Posted April 23, 2014 I want someone who struggles to speak English and by that I do not mean a Scottish manager. Gabby! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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